Origins of PAL: 1956 radio engeenering airticle from UK mag -- phase alternations (and effects) considered...

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
ivan wrote:

the US. You had this guy called Baird that was all
about puttering around with whirling disks.



I read somewhere that because EMI and the RCA at that time were
financially
linked, there was a was a reasonable degree of co-operation and exchanges
of
ideas between the two teams.


This is correct. The very first person to actually devise and
build an electronic p[ickup tube that worked was Philo Farnsworth,
with the image dissector, a tube the was so insensitive that it was
a joke for television. Vladimir Zworykin was father of the
Iconoscope (duplicated by EMI as the Emitron) which was
a rather clumsy first attempt at a charge and discharge system.
None of this was European. Also note that Zworykin's original
1923 patent application was a useless joke.

Sorry Zworykin was born in Europe and exhibited his first television system
there in 1910.


After that everybody got into the pie. but, basically speaking,
it was people at RCA that developed the very critical image orthicon.

You will be telling us they invented radar next...


Doug McDonald

In message
Doug McDonald wrote:

I realize that you had a small "official" broadcast
effort in one city in what, 1936. But you did not
actually get the electronic part done right before
the US.

Out of interest, which U.S. City benefitted from a regular off-air
television broadcast service using electronically sourced pictures
before November 1936 ?

Cheers !

Gareth.

Hayes, Middlesex, England.

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
R. Mark Clayton wrote:


USA is still stuck with 525 lines and what is the [almost universally
accepted as] inferior NTSC colour system.

You are obviously not well read, Mr. van Winkle.

The US has THREE TV standards, one indeed 240 lines (525
scanning, 480 active), 720, and 1080.


Like we had quadriphonic radio broadcasts in the seventies. I would guess
that more than 99% of broadcast TV in the US is 525 line.


But you did not
actually get the electronic part done right before
the US.


So when did broadcasting start in the USA then? Why don't you withdraw
this remark as it is just wrong.


I did NOT say "broadcasting", you idiot! I said "development".

Oh I am so sorry for my idiocy, I thought that by done you meant development
complete and a working system making regular scheduled PUBLIC broadcasts,
not some lab curiosity.

Development proceeded in parallel in Europe and the
US, and many key developments were made first in the US,
especially of camera tubes. And one vitally key
patent was first made in the USA by Philo Farnsworth,
a patent that neither RCA nor EMI was able to get around.


Gosh, so why was it so long before broadcasts started int eh US then?

I agree that England had the first "official" TV
"broadcasts". There is no quibble about that.

But they did NOT have the first regular COLOR TV broadcasts,
which were in the US, nor the first regular HD broadcasts,
which were in Japan (though not digital.)

And of course Europe today is completely backwards in the
TV field.

Well dream on. More likely that the Europeans (these days tending to
include the French) will get it right. One only has to look at the
technical shambles that the US has for cellphones to realise that. They
also imagine that their solution is best no matter what - e.g. airport
landing guidance (unless they gave in).


Doug McDonald

Then there is US cars...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

Like [the UK] had quadriphonic radio broadcasts in the seventies.

And that's someting to be proud of?
Did you ever listen to them?

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
R. Mark Clayton wrote:


USA is still stuck with 525 lines and what is the [almost universally
accepted as] inferior NTSC colour system.

You are obviously not well read, Mr. van Winkle.

The US has THREE TV standards, one indeed 240 lines (525
scanning, 480 active), 720, and 1080.


Like we had quadriphonic radio broadcasts in the seventies. I would guess
that more than 99% of broadcast TV in the US is 525 line.

Germany and Sweden have been doing DD5.1 radio broadcasts for a while now. SR
send out a 640Kbps DD5.1 stream and a 1.5Mbps DTS stream.


Az.

In article , Doug McDonald wrote:
But it is immaterial ... we are discussing the history
of TV, what made it commonplace.

For that, Baird was not responsible. Farnsworth and
Zworykin were, along with, later, myriads of others.

Baird's pioneering work paved the way for others to follow. No-one
would deny the Wright brothers their proper place in history simply
because commercial airlines don't use propellor-driven canvas biplanes
today, so it is absurd to say Baird played no important part in
television simply because we no longer use whirling disks. Lots of
people had ideas, but that's all they were until Baird made something
that actually worked.

You need more than an idea to make a commercial reality; you need the
will, and the money, to develop it into something, and for that you
need somebody to show that it can be done.

Rod.

"Pete Fraser" wrote in message
...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

Like [the UK] had quadriphonic radio broadcasts in the seventies.

And that's someting to be proud of?
Did you ever listen to them?




No, although I have quad preamps picked up at an RSGB show for 80p. The
point was that these were on the QS? standard that was never adopted. I
likewise suspect that the US HD system will be superseded quite soon.

"Gareth Rowlands" wrote in message
...
In message
Doug McDonald wrote:

I realize that you had a small "official" broadcast
effort in one city in what, 1936. But you did not
actually get the electronic part done right before
the US.

Out of interest, which U.S. City benefitted from a regular off-air
television broadcast service using electronically sourced pictures
before November 1936 ?

Or 1946 for that matter!


Cheers !

Gareth.

Hayes, Middlesex, England.

Gareth Rowlands wrote:

In message
Doug McDonald wrote:


I realize that you had a small "official" broadcast
effort in one city in what, 1936. But you did not
actually get the electronic part done right before
the US.


Out of interest, which U.S. City benefitted from a regular off-air
television broadcast service using electronically sourced pictures
before November 1936 ?



None ... that's what I said. Can you read?

Doug McDonald

R. Mark Clayton wrote:


Like we had quadriphonic radio broadcasts in the seventies. I would guess
that more than 99% of broadcast TV in the US is 525 line.

Nowhere near 99%. Prime time is about half true HDTV. Prime time
is 1/8 of the day, so 1/2 of 1/8 is 1/16, which is 6%. There
are also HDTV broadcasts outside prime time, including much sports,
including at some time on Sunday as many as 10 different
HDTV broadcasts, one afternoon soap opera (yes, I know),
and Jay Leno, soon Letterman too.

Now cable and satellite are probably much closer to 99% LDTV
(LDTV means worse resolution than NTSC.)


Well dream on. More likely that the Europeans (these days tending to
include the French) will get it right.

Come to you senses, come to America, and look at our HDTV.

Your jaw will fall off.

Doug McDonald