Television Mag

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Bill Wright
saying something like:

There are no
aerial riggers in the tropical jungle, or on the west side of Ireland,
where the aerials just go on poles in the garden.

Pretty much the case here, and I'm not in the Wesht. My Sky pole sits in
the front yard and my DTV antenna is a 90cm square dish in the attic
with a dipole pick-up in front of it. I saw no point in clambering up
the side of the building when alternatives existed.

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode in your
Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually searching
for it.
Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in the days of the
internet is nothing more than an attempt to **** against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as to
make the set inoperable.

This can make life difficult when the set finally appears in front of a
qualified repairer - on that came my way with tampered EEPROM data, my
employer didn't have the programmer to re-write the EEPROM so we had to
order a replacement.

When the replacement was fitted the set started up but none of the buttons
did what they were supposed to, after hours of phone calls we discovered
that the firmware had been revised and we should have been supplied with the
EEPROM and front panel micro as a matched pair - so we then had to order the
right micro to go with the EEPROM.

The owner wasn't best pleased when she saw the bill, in this case it was her
kids who'd f****d it up but when organisations give out info that helps
people get into this situation its all too easy to become a target of the
blame game.

In article , Ian Field
wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode in your Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually searching
for it. Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in the days of
the internet is nothing more than an attempt to **** against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as to
make the set inoperable.

How would you do that using the service menus? Or do you have some other
method in mind?

The owner wasn't best pleased when she saw the bill, in this case it was
her kids who'd f****d it up but when organisations give out info that
helps people get into this situation its all too easy to become a
target of the blame game.

But is your point really that we should never tell anyone anything for fear
that their kids might misuse the info? Should we also remove all the knives
from all home kitchens? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Ian Field
writes

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
.. .
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode in your
Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually searching
for it.
Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in the days of the
internet is nothing more than an attempt to **** against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as to
make the set inoperable.

This can make life difficult when the set finally appears in front of a
qualified repairer - on that came my way with tampered EEPROM data, my
employer didn't have the programmer to re-write the EEPROM so we had to
order a replacement.

When the replacement was fitted the set started up but none of the buttons
did what they were supposed to, after hours of phone calls we discovered
that the firmware had been revised and we should have been supplied with the
EEPROM and front panel micro as a matched pair - so we then had to order the
right micro to go with the EEPROM.

The owner wasn't best pleased when she saw the bill, in this case it was her
kids who'd f****d it up but when organisations give out info that helps
people get into this situation its all too easy to become a target of the
blame game.

An example which completely discredits any business argument for NOT
providing trade information - the "trade" made more income from the
information being openly available than they ever would have if that
information had been a genuine "trade secret".
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Ian Field
wrote:

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode in your Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually searching
for it. Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in the days of
the internet is nothing more than an attempt to **** against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as to
make the set inoperable.

How would you do that using the service menus? Or do you have some other
method in mind?

The owner wasn't best pleased when she saw the bill, in this case it was
her kids who'd f****d it up but when organisations give out info that
helps people get into this situation its all too easy to become a
target of the blame game.

But is your point really that we should never tell anyone anything for
fear
that their kids might misuse the info? Should we also remove all the
knives
from all home kitchens? :-)


There are some things that some people are better off not knowing - and your
sarcastic comments identify you as one of those people.

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Bill Wright
saying something like:

There are no
aerial riggers in the tropical jungle, or on the west side of Ireland,
where the aerials just go on poles in the garden.

Pretty much the case here, and I'm not in the Wesht. My Sky pole sits in
the front yard and my DTV antenna is a 90cm square dish in the attic
with a dipole pick-up in front of it. I saw no point in clambering up
the side of the building when alternatives existed.
Years ago we used to have a good mail order business selling to people
in remote areas.

Bill

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode in your Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually searching
for it. Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in the days of
the internet is nothing more than an attempt to **** against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as to
make the set inoperable.

How would you do that using the service menus? Or do you have some other
method in mind?

Years ago I discovered how to put my 8mm Canon Camcorder into service mode,
it was simply a pad on the remote control PCB that had no corresponding button.
No intervention on the camera itself was required. I experimented with various
settings, recording the original values of course. Many of the settings had the potential
to effectively brick the camera.
It did occur to me that as this was still a current model in many a Dixons shop window,
filming passers-by, that I could try my newly acquired knowledge from the street outside.
I am pleased to report that I managed to resist the temtation.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Ian Field wrote:

There are some things that some people are better off not knowing - and your
sarcastic comments identify you as one of those people.

Splort!

Make sure you and Trevor have fun on that forum now, won't you?

In article , Ian Field
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Ian Field
wrote:


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as
to make the set inoperable.

How would you do that using the service menus? Or do you have some
other method in mind?

The owner wasn't best pleased when she saw the bill, in this case it
was her kids who'd f****d it up but when organisations give out info
that helps people get into this situation its all too easy to become
a target of the blame game.

But is your point really that we should never tell anyone anything for
fear that their kids might misuse the info? Should we also remove all
the knives from all home kitchens? :-)


There are some things that some people are better off not knowing - and
your sarcastic comments identify you as one of those people.

Nice rhetoric and use of "go for the man, not the ball". Sorry to hear
about your sense-of-humour bypass operation being a success, though. :-)

Would it help you to know that I've designed a variety of kit, including
items sold as consumer goods[1]? Admittedly, its been years since I've
actually programmed any PROMs, etc, though. More likely to listen to them
these days... :-)

Or are you just evading answering my actual questions about you claim wrt
EEPROMs in TV sets? Your assertion seems curous to me, so I was inviting
you to explain. You made the claim, but still haven't explained it. Does it
not occur to you that on a *tech tv* group people might not want to know
the basis of your claim? If only to *avoid* either the sets (which might be
regarded as having a design fault) or the magic sequence of (presumably)
service commands that might foul up the EEPROM.

BTW Thinking about this I've been wondering if a closed group of 'tv
service types' that won't let any mere 'consumers' in might be a legal
problem. If they discuss anything related to trade then it might be judged
a cartel, which may be illegal in UK/EU law as it would let them dice up
buisness or hamonise prices, etc. Maybe someone should mention the closed
group to Trading Standards or whoever is responsibility for this area in
the UK. Particularly if it is keeping 'secret' info that might help users
*avoid* damaging their sets and then having to pay a service bod who is 'in
the magic circle'.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] For which we cheerfully supplied circuit diagrams and manuals to anyone
who asked for them.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Graham. wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when
the drugs began to take hold. I remember Trevor
saying something like:

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information
like how to enter the service mode in your Samsung lcd do you??

Why not? As a recent purchaser of a Samsung LCD, I was able to find
exactly that information on the web within a day of casually
searching for it. Your desire to keep a closed shop of knowledge in
the days of the internet is nothing more than an attempt to ****
against the wind.


With some sets its possible to bollix up the data in the EEPROM so as
to make the set inoperable.

How would you do that using the service menus? Or do you have some
other method in mind?

Years ago I discovered how to put my 8mm Canon Camcorder into service
mode, it was simply a pad on the remote control PCB that had no
corresponding button. No intervention on the camera itself was required.
I experimented with various settings, recording the original values of
course. Many of the settings had the potential to effectively brick the
camera.

Can you explain how you knew this (*without* doing so to find out too late)
and give an example or two? I am genuinely interested.

IIRC You also would have had to dissasemble or physically alter the remote
to access this. Is that correct?

My curiosity is because Ian seems to be reporting an example where no such
physical change or dissassebly may be needed. I can't tell, though, if he
insists on not giving any details about what he has claimed.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html