Television Mag

Trevor wrote:

you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode

If you don't somebody else will. I'm not, and never have been, any part
of "the trade" but had my previous TV in service mode within hours of
buying it to tweak various settings, and later tracked down a full copy
of the service manual for it online.

Attempting to lock "secrets" away from the great unwashed is a waste of
time these days, it'd be better to make sure they were aware of the
potential risks e.g. make sure they record all previous settings, make
sure they know how to do a factory reset if it all goes wrong, know
which settings to avoid like the plague.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Trevor wrote:
Thanks very much Bill.
That's quite all right. No problem.

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode or how to change the caps in your
Samsung lcd do you??
This will be someone else you're talking to now, I expect?

To be honest, I think 'trade secrets' are a thing of the past. We live in
the information age. Many years ago it might have been possible to protect
a trade by keeping information secret, but nowadays it isn't possible and
more important it isn't necessary. Joe Bloggs doesn't ask you to fix his
telly because he doesn't know which capacitor to replace, it's because
even if he did know he wouldn't have a soldering station, the physical
skills, or most importantly the time to do it. "Can't be arsed" is the
expression in vogue.


There has, and always will be the tin-foil fuse wrapper brigade.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:39:45 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

There has, and always will be the tin-foil fuse wrapper brigade.


Only while fuses are still used.

Steve

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In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Trevor wrote:
Thanks very much Bill.
That's quite all right. No problem.

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode or how to change the caps in your
Samsung lcd do you??
This will be someone else you're talking to now, I expect?

To be honest, I think 'trade secrets' are a thing of the past. We live
in the information age. Many years ago it might have been possible to
protect a trade by keeping information secret, but nowadays it isn't
possible and more important it isn't necessary.

I agree. I'm also puzzled by much of what has been said. Perhaps Trevor
could deal with a few questions.

Why does he "believe" it is "important not to give consumers 'trade' sic?
information"? What are the reasons his belief is based upon?

And who qualifies as an "engineer" or has enough skill, etc, to pass his
tests? e.g. I'm a long-standing member of the IEEE and AES. Nominally
also a C.Eng IIRC, although I've never taken than seriously as came with
the rations from my IoP membership I think. :-) I've also designed and
developed various systems, etc, from audio to light. Would I qualify even
though I've never worked in the TV repair trade?

The idea of "trade secrets" in such areas is a weird one. Back in days of
yore my experience was that you often either got a diagram/manual with the
item or the makers would provide one if it was requested. I also recall
finding them rolled up in the back of at least one TV. B&O IRC :-)

To try and restrict info in an age where the 'service menu' has replaced
fiddling with skeleton pots seems odd to me.

That makes me wonder. Are all the old ERT sheets now openly on the web
somewhere? Or have they become 'forbidden knowlege' for mere mortals who
don't know which end of a soldering iron to *not* hold it by?... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Ian Field
wrote:

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Trevor wrote:
Thanks very much Bill.
That's quite all right. No problem.

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode or how to change the caps in your
Samsung lcd do you??
This will be someone else you're talking to now, I expect?

To be honest, I think 'trade secrets' are a thing of the past. We live
in the information age. Many years ago it might have been possible to
protect a trade by keeping information secret, but nowadays it isn't
possible and more important it isn't necessary. Joe Bloggs doesn't
ask you to fix his telly because he doesn't know which capacitor to
replace, it's because even if he did know he wouldn't have a
soldering station, the physical skills, or most importantly the time
to do it. "Can't be arsed" is the expression in vogue.


There has, and always will be the tin-foil fuse wrapper brigade.

That's true. But none of us were elected by God to be their minder and
controller if they are adults. What you *can* do is give clear advice and
warnings wrt safe behaviour and to only do things when they understand - on
the basis that they are taking their own risks. In such a context denying
info is arguable as 'dangerous' as giving it.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Trevor wrote:
Thanks very much Bill.
That's quite all right. No problem.

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode or how to change the caps in your
Samsung lcd do you??
This will be someone else you're talking to now, I expect?

To be honest, I think 'trade secrets' are a thing of the past. We live
in the information age. Many years ago it might have been possible to
protect a trade by keeping information secret, but nowadays it isn't
possible and more important it isn't necessary.

I agree. I'm also puzzled by much of what has been said. Perhaps Trevor
could deal with a few questions.

Why does he "believe" it is "important not to give consumers 'trade'
sic?
information"? What are the reasons his belief is based upon?

And who qualifies as an "engineer" or has enough skill, etc, to pass his
tests? e.g. I'm a long-standing member of the IEEE and AES. Nominally
also a C.Eng IIRC, although I've never taken than seriously as came with
the rations from my IoP membership I think. :-) I've also designed and
developed various systems, etc, from audio to light. Would I qualify even
though I've never worked in the TV repair trade?

The idea of "trade secrets" in such areas is a weird one. Back in days of
yore my experience was that you often either got a diagram/manual with the
item or the makers would provide one if it was requested. I also recall
finding them rolled up in the back of at least one TV. B&O IRC :-)


ISTR Grundig sets having the schematic stowed in a slot inside the cabinet.

In article , Ian Field
writes

There has, and always will be the tin-foil fuse wrapper brigade.

and that's who The Darwin Awards are intended for. ;-)
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

In article , Andy
Burns writes
Trevor wrote:

you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode

If you don't somebody else will.

Attempting to lock "secrets" away from the great unwashed is a waste of
time these days, it'd be better to make sure they were aware of the
potential risks e.g. make sure they record all previous settings, make
sure they know how to do a factory reset if it all goes wrong, know
which settings to avoid like the plague.

Better still, avoid mention of risks and improve the gene pool!

Just up the road from where I occasionally work are 24hr KFCs & Mickey
D's - next to a busy dual carriageway. Within a couple of years of them
being opened the local council put 8ft fencing down the central
reservation to dissuade the synaptically challenged from dodging 70mph
traffic with their Colonel McNugget Buckets. That wasn't enough so, a
couple of years later they fixed large signs to the fencing which read
"Warning Fatal Accident Site - DO NOT CROSS".

Still, that wasn't enough, so now they have reduced the speed limit and
put speed cameras up - because its obviously the fault of drivers using
the road at the national speed limit that the IQ of the local town has
been increasing.

It's one thing putting warnings on things that otherwise look perfectly
innocent, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that
insists on this- http://tinyurl.com/5ssrxqx
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

In article
,
Trevor writes

So to summarise, you think we should give out trade information like
how to enter the service mode or how to change the caps in your
Samsung lcd do you??

Yes, why not, I can go and sign on shortly after.

You seem to be a "glass half empty" individual.

Telling them how to enter service mode or which caps to change would
probably increase trade these days, given the technical abilities of the
average man in the street!
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

It's one thing putting warnings on things that otherwise look perfectly
innocent, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a society that
insists on this- http://tinyurl.com/5ssrxqx

Thats nothing, I work for a supermarket and I've seen the following:

Own label Frozen Nut Roast: Warnimg Contains Nuts

Own label Mild Cheddar: Warning, Contains milk

Own label sliced bread: Warning: Contains Gluten

On the bottom of a frozen gateau: Warning: Do Not turn upside down.

Stephen