Advice, please

This is most unusual. Where is the existing aerial distribution point? Surely that
is where the additional kit should be.

On the roof and yes.

Not quite sure why you think it would be elsewhere!


Presumably additional cables are going to be run to the individual flats from here.
That will constitute the bulk of the work involved.

Indeed.


So, it is becoming clear now, what is being proposed is an entirely optical distribution system, all the way to every flat...
....where presumably there will be the mother of all outlet plates to present the signals back
into copper.
That's some system.
Also you mentioned dishes (plural), what is going to be distributed?

What's the cost per dwelling?

I'm asking so that others can help, to say I am out of my depth here would be an
understatement.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Apr 21, 10:30*pm, widgitt wrote:
I wonder what satellites you will be recieving if you are expecting a
"couple" of dishes to be installed?

I am going to apply for Planning Permission for three: one pointing at
the Astra satellites for FreeSat and Sky Digital and one at the
Eutelsat Hotbirds for European broadcasters. I do not intend to fit a
third initially, but just in case somebody wants something that is not
on the initial set-up, then I am not forced to apply for Planning
Permission again.


I am also just a little bit wary of fibre optics at the moment.
Probably as I haven't used them yet!
In general the principle seems fine and the great advantage is the low
loss and ability to split the signals to many more outlets.
It is only the main runs which are fibre optic, and then conversion is
back to standard electrical at the local distribution points.
To me, it seems that the main problems are having to use preset
lengths of fibre optic cable, as terminating is difficult, and
possible inexperience of installers if you don't get the right ones.

That makes sense.

John

On Apr 21, 10:44*pm, Petert wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:30:54 -0700 (PDT), widgitt

wrote:
I wonder what satellites you will be recieving if you are expecting a
"couple" of dishes to be installed?

I am also just a little bit wary of fibre optics at the moment.
Probably as I haven't used them yet!

I've been using optics for over 20 years - they are quite robust, but
as to how they will perform in this particular application has yet to
be seen.

In general the principle seems fine and the great advantage is the low
loss and ability to split the signals to many more outlets.

The fibres themselves are very strong and will not suffer from water
ingress. The literature I've seen indicates the fibres are terminated
in FC/PC connestors - these connect by means of a screw thread and are
made out of metal (steel?) so tend to be far more robust than the
newer type of connector - which are made from plastic

It is only the main runs which are fibre optic, and then conversion is
back to standard electrical at the local distribution points.

The design appears to indicate fibre all the way to the TV set -http://www.triax.co.uk/Products/Fibre%20Optic%20Solutions.aspx

I agree. The pictures I have seen show the fibre optic cables going
into the room with a TV and then into a small box which converts the
light signal into something that current decoders can use.


To me, it seems that the main problems are having to use preset
lengths of fibre optic cable, as terminating is difficult, and
possible inexperience of installers if you don't get the right ones.



John

On Apr 22, 11:57*am, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember John saying
something like:

This is most unusual. Where is the existing aerial distribution point? Surely that
is where the additional kit should be.

On the roof and yes.

Not quite sure why you think it would be elsewhere!

Because that's what it read like.

"At long last, after many, many years of planning and saving, I am,
hopefully, going to have a couple of satellite dishes stuck on the top
of the tower block where I live (planning permission expected) and fed
down to my apartment. *Access to the signals will then be available to
others in the block to help me to recover the capital cost of
installation."

Hah-hah! Yes, it does seem like I am saying that I live on the
roof!

No...the dishes would be on the roof, and I live on floors four and
five of the tower block!

John

On Apr 22, 4:56*pm, "Graham." wrote:
This is most unusual. Where is the existing aerial distribution point? Surely that
is where the additional kit should be.

On the roof and yes.

Not quite sure why you think it would be elsewhere!

Presumably additional cables are going to be run to the individual flats from here.
That will constitute the bulk of the work involved.

Indeed.

So, it is becoming clear now, what is being proposed is an entirely optical distribution system, all the way to every flat...

All the way to my apartment to start with, and then to others as they
come on board.


...where presumably there will be the mother of all outlet plates to present the signals back
into copper.
That's some system.
Also you mentioned dishes (plural), what is going to be distributed?

Astra (for Sky D), Hotbirds (for Euro channels), DTT and DAB.


What's the cost per dwelling?

At the moment I do not even know what the total cost will be as I am
waiting for a quote, which might be sitting on the floor at home when
I get back from work.

Initially, I shall be the only beneficiary, and then if others want
the signals, then they are going to have to pay their fair share. I
am certainly NOT going to run it for a profit, but enough needs to be
generated to provide enough to pay back my capital outlay and a bit
extra for maintenance.


I'm asking so that others can help, to say I am out of my depth here would be an
understatement.

That makes two of us, but I want to learn!

John

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

John wrote:

No...the dishes would be on the roof, and I live on floors four and
five of the tower block!

If it had been floors 7 and 8, I'd have said your surname was really
Malkovich, and I'd have claimed my 5 pounds.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

"John" wrote in message
...
On Apr 22, 4:56 pm, "Graham." wrote:
This is most unusual. Where is the existing aerial distribution point?
Surely that
is where the additional kit should be.

On the roof and yes.

Not quite sure why you think it would be elsewhere!

Presumably additional cables are going to be run to the individual
flats from here.
That will constitute the bulk of the work involved.

Indeed.

So, it is becoming clear now, what is being proposed is an entirely
optical distribution system, all the way to every flat...

All the way to my apartment to start with, and then to others as they
come on board.


...where presumably there will be the mother of all outlet plates to
present the signals back
into copper.
That's some system.
Also you mentioned dishes (plural), what is going to be distributed?

Astra (for Sky D), Hotbirds (for Euro channels), DTT and DAB.


What's the cost per dwelling?

At the moment I do not even know what the total cost will be as I am
waiting for a quote, which might be sitting on the floor at home when
I get back from work.

Initially, I shall be the only beneficiary, and then if others want
the signals, then they are going to have to pay their fair share. I
am certainly NOT going to run it for a profit, but enough needs to be
generated to provide enough to pay back my capital outlay and a bit
extra for maintenance.


I'm asking so that others can help, to say I am out of my depth here
would be an
understatement.

That makes two of us, but I want to learn!

John

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%


I find it hard to believe any of this - but stop short, just, of the Troll
accusation

On Apr 22, 11:01*am, John wrote:
On 21 Apr, 22:03, "Graham." wrote:
I will be interested to hear Bill's thoughts on this.

Indeed.

Fibre is very new technology for our industry. On the face of it there
are many advantages, and I have no doubt that in a few years it will
be the standard technolgy for larger systems. Eventually it will be
the standard technology for all systems. But right now, I don't know.
The available equipment (and test equipment) is virtually prototype,
and there is very little choice of manufacturer. From the customer's
point of view perhaps the market needs to mature a little. I think a
lot of installers are looking for well-off guinea pigs at the moment.
I'm watching the situation with great interest. This year's CAI show
will be full of fun.

Bill

On Apr 22, 6:14*pm, John wrote:
On Apr 22, 4:56*pm, "Graham." wrote:
Initially, I shall be the only beneficiary, and then if others want
the signals, then they are going to have to pay their fair share. *I
am certainly NOT going to run it for a profit, but enough needs to be
generated to provide enough to pay back my capital outlay and a bit
extra for maintenance.

Your problem is that the system architecture depends on the number of
subscribers. You can't install a system for one, then add another
later, then another, etc. Also, the cost of adding individual
subscribers after the main installation has been completed will be
astronomical, compared to the cost per subscriber if the whole block
(or a good part of it) is done at once.

You need to install a backbone capable of feeding all likely
subscribers, which will be a big investment up front, then charge per
connection. Aim to make a profit, because otherwise you will make a
loss.

Bill

In message
,
" writes
On Apr 22, 11:01*am, John wrote:
On 21 Apr, 22:03, "Graham." wrote:
I will be interested to hear Bill's thoughts on this.

Indeed.

Fibre is very new technology for our industry. On the face of it there
are many advantages, and I have no doubt that in a few years it will
be the standard technolgy for larger systems. Eventually it will be
the standard technology for all systems. But right now, I don't know.
The available equipment (and test equipment) is virtually prototype,
and there is very little choice of manufacturer. From the customer's
point of view perhaps the market needs to mature a little. I think a
lot of installers are looking for well-off guinea pigs at the moment.
I'm watching the situation with great interest. This year's CAI show
will be full of fun.

I have no experience of the use of optical transmission in the MATV and
domestic end of the market. However, for many years it has been standard
practice in the large cable TV networks, increasingly obviating the need
for long cascades of RF repeater amplifiers. The present situation is
that many areas are (or could be) fibre-to-the-cabinet, with coax only
between the street cabinet and the home.

One thing I can say is that most optical equipment is very expensive,
but of course, the performance and reliability has to be very high
indeed. Obviously, equipment for the somewhat simpler MATV market will
probably be a lot cheaper.

One of the main problems with the present optical technology is the need
for absolutely cleanliness at the connectors. The approach is quite
different from coax. It's essentially impractical for installers to fit
connectors on the ends of bare fibres. This is overcome by splicing on
fibre tails (supplied with connector at one end) - a fairly skilled job,
and the splicer isn't cheap. In MATV installations, it may be more
practical to use a selection of standard lengths of fibre (even if the
excess has to be left carefully coiled up)

However, like most things, what is cheap and commonplace today was often
considered exotic and prohibitively expensive a few years ago. I'm sure
than present problems will be overcome.
--
Ian