Power line adaptors

In article , Graham.
scribeth thus


"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message news:btmdnbgWubh
...

"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message news:w_qdnUx4QZ-
...
There's really no need to take so much delight in other peoples problems.

I expect your mother bullied you when you were a child and you've never got
over it.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.


I really don't give a dam. I had radio system security on my car and when the
local council gave authorisation for a mobile phone
company to install its aerials on a neighbouring building my radio equipment
started playing up. A call to the council replied,
they are paying us big bucks so **** you jack, change your radio equipment.

Let's peruse this a little if you don't mind.
First, what exactly is "radio system security"?


Wonder exactly what system was installed on the council building and
what equipment was affected?..

This might have been a TETRA system which can and does affect TV
reception and sometimes car locking systems;!.

Mobile phone stations OTOH don't seem to cause many problems if any in
most instances...
--
Tony Sayer

The problem of course is that mains wiring was never intended to be used as
signal lines. The only way they actually work at all is by splitting the
wide band signal up much as a modem does, but, the big difference is that
because the medium is so bad at carrying these hf signals, they need to
chuck a lot of power in to the line at very wide bandwidth.
In them old days what did we have, a few remote control signals, some fm
intercoms etc, all relatively low bandwidth, but people sendinngTv and
other data this way is a nightmare. I am told they have been playing havoc
with the cheaper end of the wireless keyboard market, which use 27mhz. In
fact I have a feeling an office near me has had to chuck out its wireless
keyboards because a company in the same block is using pwer line adaptors
for its printers.

Brian

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"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
Yes thanks.

They are great bits of kit non the less.


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Well I hope they get banned, but I'm not holding my breath. Of course
its all a plot to filter the internet and make sure nobody can hear
foreign news via short wave either.

Brian

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"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
yes, great aren't they. Made my system much faster.


"198 kHz" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...


Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise
or another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a
strong signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will
force the original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Similar experience here, Brian, I recently used a pair of Comtrend
power line adaptors to link a PC and router - no BT Vision involved -
and was intrigued to find that while the HF interference was appalling,
there was virtually none on all the ham bands. All very well, but I
like my broadcast bands too!

It seems that there is an ongoing campaign against the little
varmints -

http://www.ukqrm.co.uk/

http://www.mikeandsniffy.co.uk/UKQRM/

--
Martin

I'd agree with that, the short wave air bands are a case in point. I can now
only hear these when the device is off. I suspect sometimes they turn it off
during the day for some reason, but its nearly always on in the evenings and
through the night till about 7.30 in the morning, and often 24 hours. also
there is more than one, as I can hear a quieter one when its off.

Short of buying myself an isolated island off Scotland and setting up a
remote controlled listening station there, I cannot see what I can do
really. When the wether is more clement, I may venture out with a sighted
person and see iff we can pin it down. I'm hopin it will blow up before
then.

Brian

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"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
There's little spectrum space left if you filter out the broadcast bands
and the amateur bands

About half of it I'd guess.

Mind you I don't see why people like me who like listening to utility
stations should have to put up with it either.
Utilities are much weaker than many broadcasts.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

That is just it, the ham bands are clear, as has been said the filtering is
indeed in the software, which is how Offcom made some that are less
invasive, but useless for what they were intended for.
I cannot see why we need anything more than a wireless booster to cope with
most situations. Shoving broad band signals up the mains seems a crazy idea
to me.

Brian

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Brian Gaff -
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wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:01:34 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Reading between the lines I get the feeling that most of the engineers
feel
the offcom decision makers have been caught asleep at the wheel and these
devices should have been jumped on at the start.

In reality Ofcom didn't have a lot of choice.

It followed the pattern of CB, MF cordless phones, and more recently
low power FM transmitters, where the things are freely available
elsewhere in the world and people will use them here regardless.

Provided no interference will be caused to a significant user (as
happened with 'family radios' imported from the US affecting the
emergency services), the simplest administrative solution to illegal
use is just to legalise them. No-one will hear a few radio hams
grumblng will they?

I have to make some things clear here.
Firstly, CB was made legal using a system and frequency not standard to most
other places. In the beginning if you recall, they gave them the 999mhz
band, then, when they gave them 27mhz they made it fm only, at a small power
and only above 27.6mhz.

With cordless phones, a lot used to be imported illegally at 46 and 49mhz
with all sorts of odd back channel allocations. As far as I'm aware, they
still have the 35/40mhz ones for cheapo, and probably the really naff ones
that operate just a bit high of medium wave and somewhere vhf ish, but
nobody would use one as one can plainly hear everyone's credit card numbers
just by tuning around..
One other strange thing occurs. The baby monitors are left on around 49mhz,
and it always seems odd to me that folk will willingly bug their own
houses!



But getting back to the main thrust of this. There are, these days too many
items, Plasma tvs, most switch mode psus, some wireless routers, power line
adaptors, and no doubt other appliances, which chuck out radio frequencies
they should not be. People are worried about radio frequencies from mobile
phone masts outside schools, but there is probably a greater absorption
going on over time almost anywhere near a mains cable!
Brian

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"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:01:34 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Reading between the lines I get the feeling that most of the engineers
feel
the offcom decision makers have been caught asleep at the wheel and these
devices should have been jumped on at the start.

In reality Ofcom didn't have a lot of choice.

It followed the pattern of CB, MF cordless phones, and more recently
low power FM transmitters, where the things are freely available
elsewhere in the world and people will use them here regardless.

Provided no interference will be caused to a significant user (as
happened with 'family radios' imported from the US affecting the
emergency services), the simplest administrative solution to illegal
use is just to legalise them. No-one will hear a few radio hams
grumblng will they?

that right after all they have had enough time knob twiddling...hare
breaker one big daddy its the teddy rolling 10 4 and there's a bug on yer
bumper big buddy.

I think they call them trolls here.

Brian

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Brian Gaff -
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"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:08:47 -0000, In400metreskeepright
wrote:

Provided no interference will be caused to a significant user (as
happened with 'family radios' imported from the US affecting the
emergency services), the simplest administrative solution to illegal
use is just to legalise them. No-one will hear a few radio hams
grumblng will they?

that right after all they have had enough time knob twiddling...hare
breaker
one big daddy its the teddy rolling 10 4 and there's a bug on yer bumper
big
buddy.

Ah, another ignorant idiot.

I'm sorry about your cuckoo impediment, I was not going to mention it, but
you can get help you know.
Try nhs direct.

Brian

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Brian Gaff -
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"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
cloud cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo land.



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
m...
I have paid nothing, but they told me that as these devices were a major
problem I should not have to pay. If they send an invoice I'll dispute it
at any rate.

The thing is, as I pointed out, was that these were internationally
agreed bands and as such the UK should be making sure they are clear of
interference.

Brian

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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
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"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Hi, not totally on topic, but thought one might be interested in this.

I recently had a visit from an Ofcome engineer, complete with 30 grand
receiver and spectrum analyser to try to find the person with a power
line adaptor which makes listening to short waves impossible.

I can pick it up on a tlescopic aerial all the way down my garden and
along a back street for some tens of metres.

However his expensive Swiss test gear with direction finding loop
could not find it at all. I could get it on an Icom receiver with a
long wire attached. OK he could hear it on that.

So the upshot is that he says the levels are too low to track it down.
However the levels are too high for me to enjoy my listening to short
wave stations.

Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise
or another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a
strong signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will
force the original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Did you have to pay?

I thought that last time I looked free help was only provided for normal
domestic (i.e. LW/MW/VHF and internal to this country) broadcast
reception.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

He should have gone to offcom. I'm sure they do not want radio systems
interfering with car electronics either.
One problem some hams are having is that new cars are using the wiring
harness as a data bus.

Brian

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Brian Gaff -
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"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
I really don't give a dam. I had radio system security on my car and when
the local council gave authorisation for a mobile phone company to
install its aerials on a neighbouring building my radio equipment started
playing up. A call to the council replied, they are paying us big bucks
so **** you jack, change your radio equipment.

Well you would have my sympathy if you'd not shown you don't deserve it.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:16:31 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

One other strange thing occurs. The baby monitors are left on around 49mhz,
and it always seems odd to me that folk will willingly bug their own
houses!

Actually baby monitors are now using DECT for privacy.
49 MHz is becoming much less interesting.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Hi, not totally on topic, but thought one might be interested in this.

I recently had a visit from an Ofcome engineer, complete with 30 grand
receiver and spectrum analyser to try to find the person with a power line
adaptor which makes listening to short waves impossible.


Don't worry, they'll have become obsolete within ten years,
when we are all fibred up with 100Mbps+ speeds

PLAs at HF up mains cables won't be able to pass those speeds
and'll be junked.

2GHz and up will have to be used to pass such speeds wirelessly

In ten years PLAs will be as much use as a 56k modem

Steve Terry
--
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