Power line adaptors

See my other post earlier. Basically, they do not cause what is defined as
interference to any service meant for the uK licenced by the UK, This is why
they have ham band filters.

Brian

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"Roger R" wrote in message
...
If the BT Vision adaptor is causing interference where ever they are used,
then surely Ofcom should be approaching BT directly and forcing them to
recall the product.

Did he not comment on that approach ?

Roger R



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Hi, not totally on topic, but thought one might be interested in this.

I recently had a visit from an Ofcome engineer, complete with 30 grand
receiver and spectrum analyser to try to find the person with a power
line adaptor which makes listening to short waves impossible.

I can pick it up on a tlescopic aerial all the way down my garden and
along a back street for some tens of metres.

However his expensive Swiss test gear with direction finding loop could
not find it at all. I could get it on an Icom receiver with a long wire
attached. OK he could hear it on that.

So the upshot is that he says the levels are too low to track it down.
However the levels are too high for me to enjoy my listening to short
wave stations.

Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise or
another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a strong
signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will force the
original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!

Yes, the guy said he had some at home which offcom had fitted with complete
filters for broadcast and ham bands. Not the units either worked very badly
or not at all, which I guess is why those who make them try to get away with
fitting few filters as there will be a liability of all retailers and
suppliers if the hammer comes down, as it should have done at the very
start.
Reading between the lines I get the feeling that most of the engineers feel
the offcom decision makers have been caught asleep at the wheel and these
devices should have been jumped on at the start. However, now we have a
situation where the suppliers have got the whole thing tied up in
technicalities to get around existing law and its going to be hard, and
expensive to get the problem sorted out. I suspect a lot of experts and
lawyers are going to get a nice bit of extra money out of this.

This is a classic case of common sense against the letter of the law. its
plainly obvious to all that the devices are a menace, but because they have
been engineered very cleverly to be hardly seeable on measuring equipment
(very broad band low level) those who have a vested interest will do
anything to keep them being sold.

As I say, anyone around here with any kind of shortwave radio will here it.
its like a hash over even quite strong stations, and a whine at other times.

The one frequency where the chap got a suitable signal to look at it, he
said its got many carriers all popping in and out of existence all the time,
but they are not there in one place long enough to be registered.

Brian

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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"198 kHz" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...


Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise or
another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a strong
signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will force the
original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Similar experience here, Brian, I recently used a pair of Comtrend power
line adaptors to link a PC and router - no BT Vision involved - and was
intrigued to find that while the HF interference was appalling, there was
virtually none on all the ham bands. All very well, but I like my
broadcast bands too!

It seems that there is an ongoing campaign against the little varmints -

http://www.ukqrm.co.uk/

http://www.mikeandsniffy.co.uk/UKQRM/

--
Martin

Well I'm sure we could steel clad the house and keep your **** insede and
you can enjoy it all yourself.

I do agree though that switch mode psus that are crap and these devices are
making too much money to be stopped, We just hope they all blow up the next
time a mains surge occurs and take the equipment with them. Not much else
will occur unless my faith in the law is misplaced.

Brian

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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Victor Meldrew" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:21:49 -0000, "198 kHz"
wrote:

wonderful power line adaptors.

It seems that there is an ongoing campaign against the little varmints -

The battle is already lost.

I use them all over my 110 year old stone built house because wireless
wasn't up to the job.

I won't stop using something I bought legally and is still widely on
sale.

--
vic

Well I hope they get banned, but I'm not holding my breath. Of course its
all a plot to filter the internet and make sure nobody can hear foreign news
via short wave either.

Brian

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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
yes, great aren't they. Made my system much faster.


"198 kHz" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...


Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise or
another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a strong
signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will force the
original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Similar experience here, Brian, I recently used a pair of Comtrend power
line adaptors to link a PC and router - no BT Vision involved - and was
intrigued to find that while the HF interference was appalling, there was
virtually none on all the ham bands. All very well, but I like my
broadcast bands too!

It seems that there is an ongoing campaign against the little varmints -

http://www.ukqrm.co.uk/

http://www.mikeandsniffy.co.uk/UKQRM/

--
Martin

I have paid nothing, but they told me that as these devices were a major
problem I should not have to pay. If they send an invoice I'll dispute it at
any rate.

The thing is, as I pointed out, was that these were internationally agreed
bands and as such the UK should be making sure they are clear of
interference.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Hi, not totally on topic, but thought one might be interested in this.

I recently had a visit from an Ofcome engineer, complete with 30 grand
receiver and spectrum analyser to try to find the person with a power
line adaptor which makes listening to short waves impossible.

I can pick it up on a tlescopic aerial all the way down my garden and
along a back street for some tens of metres.

However his expensive Swiss test gear with direction finding loop could
not find it at all. I could get it on an Icom receiver with a long wire
attached. OK he could hear it on that.

So the upshot is that he says the levels are too low to track it down.
However the levels are too high for me to enjoy my listening to short
wave stations.

Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise or
another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a strong
signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will force the
original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Did you have to pay?

I thought that last time I looked free help was only provided for normal
domestic (i.e. LW/MW/VHF and internal to this country) broadcast
reception.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

Yes thanks.

They are great bits of kit non the less.


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Well I hope they get banned, but I'm not holding my breath. Of course its
all a plot to filter the internet and make sure nobody can hear foreign
news via short wave either.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"In400metreskeepright" wrote in message
...
yes, great aren't they. Made my system much faster.


"198 kHz" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...


Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise
or another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a
strong signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will
force the original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Similar experience here, Brian, I recently used a pair of Comtrend power
line adaptors to link a PC and router - no BT Vision involved - and was
intrigued to find that while the HF interference was appalling, there
was virtually none on all the ham bands. All very well, but I like my
broadcast bands too!

It seems that there is an ongoing campaign against the little varmints -

http://www.ukqrm.co.uk/

http://www.mikeandsniffy.co.uk/UKQRM/

--
Martin

cloud cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo land.



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
m...
I have paid nothing, but they told me that as these devices were a major
problem I should not have to pay. If they send an invoice I'll dispute it
at any rate.

The thing is, as I pointed out, was that these were internationally agreed
bands and as such the UK should be making sure they are clear of
interference.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Brian Gregory [UK]" wrote in message
...
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Hi, not totally on topic, but thought one might be interested in this.

I recently had a visit from an Ofcome engineer, complete with 30 grand
receiver and spectrum analyser to try to find the person with a power
line adaptor which makes listening to short waves impossible.

I can pick it up on a tlescopic aerial all the way down my garden and
along a back street for some tens of metres.

However his expensive Swiss test gear with direction finding loop could
not find it at all. I could get it on an Icom receiver with a long wire
attached. OK he could hear it on that.

So the upshot is that he says the levels are too low to track it down.
However the levels are too high for me to enjoy my listening to short
wave stations.

Interestingly, at every ham band there is a noticable jnull, which he
sais means its someone with BT Vision, distributed vai the pwer line
adaptors.
There are apparently over half a million of these around in one guise or
another, and they have no idea where they are. if they can get a strong
signal on their loop, then track it down, normally they will force the
original installer to hard wire a link or use wireless.

Otherwise it seems you are stuffed.

Did you have to pay?

I thought that last time I looked free help was only provided for normal
domestic (i.e. LW/MW/VHF and internal to this country) broadcast
reception.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
Yes, the guy said he had some at home which offcom had fitted with complete
filters for broadcast and ham bands.

There's little spectrum space left if you filter out the broadcast bands
and the amateur bands

Not the units either worked very badly
or not at all,

[Slight typo, I think that's 'note'.]
Anyway, I'm not surprised!

which I guess is why those who make them try to get away with
fitting few filters as there will be a liability of all retailers and
suppliers if the hammer comes down, as it should have done at the very
start.

I don't think that you 'fit' physical filters to these devices. The
filtering is that, cleverly, they can be programmed so that the don't
transmit their wideband data in certain parts of the HF spectrum.
However, I doubt if a similar filtering is applied to the receiver
spectrum.

Reading between the lines I get the feeling that most of the engineers feel
the offcom decision makers have been caught asleep at the wheel and these
devices should have been jumped on at the start.

No, Ofcom was made aware of it at a very early stage, but deliberately
chose to do nothing.

However, now we have a
situation where the suppliers have got the whole thing tied up in
technicalities to get around existing law and its going to be hard, and
expensive to get the problem sorted out. I suspect a lot of experts and
lawyers are going to get a nice bit of extra money out of this.

This is a classic case of common sense against the letter of the law. its
plainly obvious to all that the devices are a menace, but because they have
been engineered very cleverly to be hardly seeable on measuring equipment
(very broad band low level) those who have a vested interest will do
anything to keep them being sold.

As I say, anyone around here with any kind of shortwave radio will here it.
its like a hash over even quite strong stations, and a whine at other times.

The one frequency where the chap got a suitable signal to look at it, he
said its got many carriers all popping in and out of existence all the time,
but they are not there in one place long enough to be registered.

The sometimes transient nature of the data signal may indeed make its
level difficult to measure correctly. However, I believe that
measurements on some of these devices show clearly that certain models
don't even meet the already-inadequate interference limits.

--

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
There's little spectrum space left if you filter out the broadcast bands
and the amateur bands

About half of it I'd guess.

Mind you I don't see why people like me who like listening to utility
stations should have to put up with it either.
Utilities are much weaker than many broadcasts.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

There's really no need to take so much delight in other peoples problems.

I expect your mother bullied you when you were a child and you've never got
over it.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.