Blu-Ray player

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Malcolm Knight wrote:

That is disc dependent and down to lazy authoring. Some discs will, after
removal and power down, ask you if you want to start again or Resume when
reinserted. One of my music concert discs allows me to choose my
favourite tracks, resequence them and have that choice offered to me
whenever that disc is reinserted. Almost anything is possible.

Many BD discs Resume in exactly the same mannner as DVDs, rather too many
don't but that is the choice of the film distributor.

Fascinating.

Where exactly on the disc does it put the information on where you are up
to? (clue: The disc is read only).

There is 4GB of memory in my Blu-ray player and the software allows me to
clear out the bits I don't need any more. I suspect other players will be
similar.
--
Malcolm

In article , Bob Goddard
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


So there is no technical reason why they can't hold memory states for
each disc and then resume when they detect the same disc has been
reloaded/restarted. Thus giving prompt restart from the situation when
that disc was stopped or ejected.
[...]

Uhhh, if the BluRay player uses 16MB of memory (not got a clue on the
actual amount, could be 1GB for all I know)

....or maybe far less than 1MB, for the same reason of lack of knowledge.

in which to run the VM and
you need to save its state, then you may need to store all that 16MB
(or 1GB) for each disk.

...or a far smaller amount.

Memory may be cheap, but flash is comparatively dear and is not wear
efficient, difficult to change unless you force the costs up.

However players tend to be able to adopt 'standby'.

And having recently bought two computers with 60GB SSDs I don't know that a
few GBs would be expensive given that some players cost north of a thousand
quid. Can't really say if we have no clue how much memory would be needed
to store a few disc states.

Just how many disks would you want them to store? 1? 2? 10? 100? 1000?


Personally, a minimum of 1 or 2. Since I am merely a customer (who is also
an engineer) I leave it up to the companies. If they can't provide discs
and players that do what I require, then I don't buy.

However if loads of people buy crap, then yes, makers will sell crap
because they can get away with it. That's the 'free market' sic. :-)

I appreciate your point, though, that Blu Ray discs may be crap by design.
But since I'm not employed to design or build any players I just judge by
results. If they can't design and make what I'd want at a price I'd pay, I
will stay with what suits me and spend my cash somewhere else. If others
buy, that is their choice and their money *provided* they were informed
beforehand of problems like this.

Slainte,

Jim

--
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bartc wrote:

I'm another one who's going to stay away from blu-ray for a while longer.

I have enough trouble with DVDs that come with copyright messages that,
despite paying for the disk, you have to keep seeing over and over again
(try explaining the reason to a screaming 3-year-old), and loads of
trailers
that you have to individually fast forward through before you get to the
main movie.


Ah, the joys of AnyDVD-HD and the ability to make main-movie only copies...

The ironic thing is that all the FBI warnings, trailers etc are only
seen by people watching legit originals. Those watching ripped copies
get to skip all that garbage and cut straight to the main movie :-)

--
Ron

In article , Ron Lowe
wrote:


The ironic thing is that all the FBI warnings, trailers etc are only
seen by people watching legit originals. Those watching ripped copies
get to skip all that garbage and cut straight to the main movie :-)

I'd be inclined to change "ironic" to "insane" or "absurd". Shows the
ignorance and arrogance of the people who make the commercial discs that do
this.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
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"Bob Goddard" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , bartc
wrote:

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:42:43 +0000, Bob Goddard
wrote:


http://www.sony.com.au/subtype/usefulinfo/asset/306437, number 6 I
think.


[...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-J

I don't see that this makes much difference. Instead of the player's
firmware recording the title and current position of a disk, it will be
up to the Java program doing the same.

I agree. Players are essentially finite state machines with their own
memory. (If nothing else, they need memory space to do all the data
transforms, etc.) And they usually operate in a stiuation where 'off'
means 'standby' and/or can have non-volatile memory.

So there is no technical reason why they can't hold memory states for
each
disc and then resume when they detect the same disc has been
reloaded/restarted. Thus giving prompt restart from the situation when
that disc was stopped or ejected.
[...]

Uhhh, if the BluRay player uses 16MB of memory (not got a clue on the
actual
amount, could be 1GB for all I know) in which to run the VM and you need
to
save its state, then you may need to store all that 16MB (or 1GB) for each
disk.

Memory may be cheap, but flash is comparatively dear and is not wear
efficient, difficult to change unless you force the costs up.

If that's the problem, then the wrong approach is being used. It's
ridiculous to have to store 1GB or whatever just to remember the resume info
for a disk. All that's really needed, is the disk identifier, the filename
that it's in the middle of, and the hh:mm:ss position.

If you gave me this info scribbled on a scrap of paper, I could probably
manage to find the correct point, so why can't the player? And the info
could probably be hashed/compressed into some tiny number of bytes if
necessary.

Just how many disks would you want them to store? 1? 2? 10? 100? 1000?

One disk is a good start.

The manufacturers need to know what is needed by a typical consumer: Resume
after Pause** and Stop for a start. Resume after Stop+Power-off too (but
perhaps not after power-fail, eg. someone yanks out the power lead).

And Resume after a disk has been re-inserted is also nice (for example after
accidently pressing Eject).

Anything beyond that is a bonus, but also gets more complicated (eg. if
there are several titles on a disk, should the last-viewed point for each be
remembered?)

(** The Pause on BBC Iplayer via my V+ box has a timeout, which of course
you don't know about until it happens (usually Pause does not time out on
other recorded materia)l. This means having to restart the title and fast
forward (at quite a slow rate) until to get to where you think you were. But
if you fast-forward too much, it screws up so that you just have to watch it
again! Or just watch it on a PC...)

--
Bartc

In article , bartc
wrote:
"Bob Goddard" wrote in message
...

Uhhh, if the BluRay player uses 16MB of memory (not got a clue on the
actual amount, could be 1GB for all I know) in which to run the VM and
you need to save its state, then you may need to store all that 16MB
(or 1GB) for each disk.

Memory may be cheap, but flash is comparatively dear and is not wear
efficient, difficult to change unless you force the costs up.

If that's the problem, then the wrong approach is being used. It's
ridiculous to have to store 1GB or whatever just to remember the resume
info for a disk. All that's really needed, is the disk identifier, the
filename that it's in the middle of, and the hh:mm:ss position.

I'd be interested to know if that would work with the relevant discs.

The reason I have doubts is that systems like DVD rely on 'metadata' in
INFO files to control the playing. So details like time offset into the
actual VOB data may not be in the VOB file in an easily understandable
manner. Instead you may have to essentially 'run a computation' using the
metadata and instructions in the INFO.

IIUC The INFO is what reprograms the user controls, and provides the data
for things like what order the VOB files are to be played. And times,
chapters, etc, aren't linked to the sizes and names of the VOB files in a
single way.

Heaven knows how much more ways the industry has dreamed up to over
complicate this with 'Java' on Blu Ray discs!

So what you say may well work, but I'm not sure of that.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:00:47 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , bartc
wrote:
"Bob Goddard" wrote in message
...

Uhhh, if the BluRay player uses 16MB of memory (not got a clue on the
actual amount, could be 1GB for all I know) in which to run the VM and
you need to save its state, then you may need to store all that 16MB
(or 1GB) for each disk.

Memory may be cheap, but flash is comparatively dear and is not wear
efficient, difficult to change unless you force the costs up.

If that's the problem, then the wrong approach is being used. It's
ridiculous to have to store 1GB or whatever just to remember the resume
info for a disk. All that's really needed, is the disk identifier, the
filename that it's in the middle of, and the hh:mm:ss position.

I'd be interested to know if that would work with the relevant discs.

The reason I have doubts is that systems like DVD rely on 'metadata' in
INFO files to control the playing. So details like time offset into the
actual VOB data may not be in the VOB file in an easily understandable
manner. Instead you may have to essentially 'run a computation' using the
metadata and instructions in the INFO.

IIUC The INFO is what reprograms the user controls, and provides the data
for things like what order the VOB files are to be played. And times,
chapters, etc, aren't linked to the sizes and names of the VOB files in a
single way.

Heaven knows how much more ways the industry has dreamed up to over
complicate this with 'Java' on Blu Ray discs!

So what you say may well work, but I'm not sure of that.

I too have my doubts. It would be possible from a programming point of
view for the Java code, when Stop is pressed, to generate and store a
set of "resume data" that would hold the necessary "position"
information in terms relevant to the Java code, current menu structure,
etc. However, if the code were to do that there is no guarantee that
resumption would be free of legal notices and advertising before
actually resuming at the point where you stopped.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:00:47 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , bartc
wrote:


If that's the problem, then the wrong approach is being used. It's
ridiculous to have to store 1GB or whatever just to remember the resume
info for a disk. All that's really needed, is the disk identifier, the
filename that it's in the middle of, and the hh:mm:ss position.

I'd be interested to know if that would work with the relevant discs.

The reason I have doubts is that systems like DVD rely on 'metadata' in
INFO files to control the playing. So details like time offset into the
actual VOB data may not be in the VOB file in an easily understandable
manner. Instead you may have to essentially 'run a computation' using the
metadata and instructions in the INFO.

IIUC The INFO is what reprograms the user controls, and provides the data
for things like what order the VOB files are to be played. And times,
chapters, etc, aren't linked to the sizes and names of the VOB files in a
single way.

I too have my doubts. It would be possible from a programming point of
view for the Java code, when Stop is pressed, to generate and store a
set of "resume data" that would hold the necessary "position"
information in terms relevant to the Java code, current menu structure,
etc. However, if the code were to do that there is no guarantee that
resumption would be free of legal notices and advertising before
actually resuming at the point where you stopped.

My DVD player has the decency not to show copyright screens when resuming an
interrupted (but not ejected/hard powered-off) disk. But it will do at the
start of the next title on the disk, if enough time has elapsed.

So of course when I finish viewing an episode of a series for the day, I get
started onto the next, so that the next day it's ready to go. But this
should be unnecessary subterfuge. I don't have to bother with all this
nonsense with a book, so why with a DVD?

--
Bartc

On 07/01/2010 18:18, Mike Henry wrote:
, Jim
wrote:

In , Ron Lowe
wrote:


The ironic thing is that all the FBI warnings, trailers etc are only
seen by people watching legit originals. Those watching ripped copies
get to skip all that garbage and cut straight to the main movie :-)

I'd be inclined to change "ironic" to "insane" or "absurd". Shows the
ignorance and arrogance of the people who make the commercial discs that do
this.

You'll appreciate Ron Stirling's parody of the DVD piracy trailer, Jim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVHUbrbEUA

And of course the brilliant IT crowd version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx...eature=related

..."and then, steal it again!" :-)

LOL! Fabulous! Thanks for posting the Youtube links.

KJ

--
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Jim Lesurf wrote:

I'd be interested to know if that would work with the relevant discs.

The reason I have doubts is that systems like DVD rely on 'metadata' in
INFO files to control the playing. So details like time offset into the
actual VOB data may not be in the VOB file in an easily understandable
manner. Instead you may have to essentially 'run a computation' using the
metadata and instructions in the INFO.

IIUC The INFO is what reprograms the user controls, and provides the data
for things like what order the VOB files are to be played. And times,
chapters, etc, aren't linked to the sizes and names of the VOB files in a
single way.

Heaven knows how much more ways the industry has dreamed up to over
complicate this with 'Java' on Blu Ray discs!


Oh no, DVDs are _far_ more complicated than that. The .BUP files are no
use for anything. The .IFO files have _most_ of the metadata in them -
but not all. They don't for example have subtitles, nor do they contain
information on what happens when you click a button - that's all in the
..VOB files. The .VOB files do have timestamp information - but it's not
measured from the front of the disc.

But I'm oversimplifying here. I'll agree with the view on Blu-ray though!

Andy