Blank TV screens as cable firm ditches analogue

J G Miller wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:25:24 +0000, Charles asked:

how do you think cable services get their signals?

Some cable companies get their signal for some radio and TV stations
direct from the radio or TV station rather than from an off air signal.

I'm not aware of any that do that.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:53:08 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:49:00 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:04:50 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:
if I was an affected resident and
customer then my objection would be "there's no (external) reason to
remove analogue broadcasts from cable in the first place, the Digital
Switchover certainly isn't one".

The crucial point about the Digital Switchover is that is an Analogue
Switchoff.

I see that.

But I thought the only thing the government/whoever was dictating was
Analogue Over Terrestrial Switchoff, and anything else (Analogue Over
Cable Switchoff, Analogue Over Satellite Switchoff) was entirely the
decision of the cable and satellite TV companies, driven by their
commercial desires.

Am I wrong?

No. You are correct, but the average viewer with little or zero
technical knowledge could reasonably take the view that the cable
company is distributing analogue and digital channels received from the
broadcasters and that so long as those channels are still available in
their district they should still be able to get them via cable.

That understanding might not fit the factual position but it is a
perfectly rational view to take.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

Mark Carver wrote:
J G Miller wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:25:24 +0000, Charles asked:

how do you think cable services get their signals?

Some cable companies get their signal for some radio and TV stations
direct from the radio or TV station rather than from an off air signal.

I'm not aware of any that do that.

It would be a good idea. This is a way to compete with other sources on
quality. In the Netherlands it is common practice.
We get our main national channels (public and private) in SD at 7,8 Mbps
per channel direct from the broadcasters, there is no other source that
can provide that. HD runs at 15 Mbps/MPEG4.

gr, hwh

Duncan Corps wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:28:04 +0000, chunkyoldcortina wrote:
But residents aren't happy cos the publicity has been that Digital
Switchover happens in that area in 2011 (the Sandy Heath switchover) so
"how dare Virgin switch it off earlier than the official date"
(paraphrased).

What does the "Digital Switchover" have to do with cable TV anyway? My
understanding was that it was solely about the terrestrial broadcasts
(i.e. what people receive through an aerial).

Correct! However, someone has obviously got it into their head that they
are being short changed, somehow, and the rumour has spread.

Some parts of the cable network had all analogue signals switched off
years ago, but I've never heard anyone complain. (Analogue subscribers
would be upgraded to digital before the switch off.)

It makes obvious sense for the cable operator - no need to maintain
ageing/obsolete analogue equipment; much 'cleaner' network and, of
course, spare bandwidth for future expansion.

The only customers who might be inconvenienced by such a move would be
in an area where an 'off-air' by-pass facility was provided, where the 4
main channels were fed via a band pass filter from the input of the STB
to the output so that customers could have their TVs tuned to BBC1,
BBC2, ITV, C4, Cable, VCR.

Of course, these 'analogue' off-air signals might have been sourced from
digital signals at the headend, anyway!

However, provided that they still have a suitable aerial, they could
still set up the same arrangement as the replacement digital STB doesn't
need (or have) an RF connection to the TV.

Terry

Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:33:02 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:28:04 +0000, chunkyoldcortina wrote:
But residents aren't happy cos the publicity has been that Digital
Switchover happens in that area in 2011 (the Sandy Heath switchover) so
"how dare Virgin switch it off earlier than the official date"
(paraphrased).
What does the "Digital Switchover" have to do with cable TV anyway? My
understanding was that it was solely about the terrestrial broadcasts
(i.e. what people receive through an aerial).

It has nothing directly to do with cable TV. However, I can understand
people objecting to the removal of analogue TV from their cable service
before the broadcasters stop producing analogue signals in their area in
2011.


Why? If they are cable subscribers, their DTV STB doesn't give them any
analogue channels anyway, so how would they even know?

"It is still available through an aerial, why shouldn't we continue to
get it by cable?", sort of thing. There is some sort of logic to the
complaint.


Perhaps you can explain this peculiar 'logic'?

Terry

Duncan Corps wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:38:33 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:33:02 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:28:04 +0000, chunkyoldcortina wrote:
But residents aren't happy cos the publicity has been that Digital
Switchover happens in that area in 2011 (the Sandy Heath switchover)
so "how dare Virgin switch it off earlier than the official date"
(paraphrased).
What does the "Digital Switchover" have to do with cable TV anyway? My
understanding was that it was solely about the terrestrial broadcasts
(i.e. what people receive through an aerial).
It has nothing directly to do with cable TV. However, I can understand
people objecting to the removal of analogue TV from their cable service
before the broadcasters stop producing analogue signals in their area in
2011.

Since you've just confirmed my belief, if I was an affected resident and
customer then my objection would be "there's no (external) reason to
remove analogue broadcasts from cable in the first place, the Digital
Switchover certainly isn't one".


How could you be affected? The cable companies STB will continue to
provide the service you're paying for and you wouldn't see any difference.

Bringing the Digital Switchover into the issue is just deliberately
creating confusion which the cable and satellite broadcasters could use
to push new products (with new prices).


Pardon? Surely it's the punters who are creating the confusion? (A
little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and all that ...)

I hope these people get some consumer justice :-) .

The only people affected would be former cable customers who are
stealing an analogue service for free, if the drop cable hasn't been
disconnected, rather that pay to have an efficient aerial installed.

Justice would only be served if the cableco investigated all these
complainants and pursued them through the courts for theft of service!

Terry

Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:53:08 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:49:00 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:04:50 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:
if I was an affected resident and
customer then my objection would be "there's no (external) reason to
remove analogue broadcasts from cable in the first place, the Digital
Switchover certainly isn't one".
The crucial point about the Digital Switchover is that is an Analogue
Switchoff.
I see that.

But I thought the only thing the government/whoever was dictating was
Analogue Over Terrestrial Switchoff, and anything else (Analogue Over
Cable Switchoff, Analogue Over Satellite Switchoff) was entirely the
decision of the cable and satellite TV companies, driven by their
commercial desires.

Am I wrong?

No. You are correct, but the average viewer with little or zero
technical knowledge could reasonably take the view that the cable
company is distributing analogue and digital channels received from the
broadcasters and that so long as those channels are still available in
their district they should still be able to get them via cable.


A cable customer will receive either an analogue or a digital service -
never both!

Apart from improved facilities and quality when the analogue STB is
replaced by a digital one, the customer will still get the same end result!

That understanding might not fit the factual position but it is a
perfectly rational view to take.


No it doesn't - and it's not rational, either!

Terry

Mark Carver wrote:
J G Miller wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:25:24 +0000, Charles asked:

how do you think cable services get their signals?

Some cable companies get their signal for some radio and TV stations
direct from the radio or TV station rather than from an off air signal.

I'm not aware of any that do that.


Cable & Wireless (now part of Virgin Media, of course) did.

Originally they received BSkyB signals via satellite and repackaged them
but there was an overhead involved in this.

Later, when they got a direct feed from BSkyB, they were able to package
them much more efficiently into fewer Transport Streams.

Terry

In message , Terry Casey
writes
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:53:08 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:49:00 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:04:50 +0000, Duncan Corps
wrote:
if I was an affected resident and
customer then my objection would be "there's no (external) reason to
remove analogue broadcasts from cable in the first place, the Digital
Switchover certainly isn't one".
The crucial point about the Digital Switchover is that is an Analogue
Switchoff.
I see that.

But I thought the only thing the government/whoever was dictating
was Analogue Over Terrestrial Switchoff, and anything else (Analogue
Cable Switchoff, Analogue Over Satellite Switchoff) was entirely the
decision of the cable and satellite TV companies, driven by their
commercial desires.

Am I wrong?
No. You are correct, but the average viewer with little or zero
technical knowledge could reasonably take the view that the cable
company is distributing analogue and digital channels received from the
broadcasters and that so long as those channels are still available in
their district they should still be able to get them via cable.


A cable customer will receive either an analogue or a digital service -
never both!

The switch from analogue to digital does not happen overnight. Some
networks definitely ran both cable digital (which required the cable
digital STB,) plus the old analogue (for reception via a STB) - plus the
4 or 5 off-air analogue channels (which could be received either via the
STB or directly on a TV set).

But it was indeed unusual for the customer to retain the analogue STB
once he had gone digital. However, in addition to the 4 or 5 analogue
off-air channels, some of the dwindling number of non-off-air channels
sometimes ended up by being carried unscrambled, so - if the customer
knew it - could also be received directly on a TV set.

I believe that the analogue off-airs were usually 'the last to go',
until the network eventually went 100% digital.

Apart from improved facilities and quality when the analogue STB is
replaced by a digital one, the customer will still get the same end
result!

That understanding might not fit the factual position but it is a
perfectly rational view to take.


No it doesn't - and it's not rational, either!

It is obviously advantageous to free up spectrum space by ceasing cable
analogue TV signals. These were on alternate channels (usually
interspersed with digitals), and so took up a slice some 72MHz wide.
Such 'messy' allocations tend to get in the way of the expansion of
'Watch on Demand', 'Watch Again' and really high speed internet
services, which may rely on the availability of several
adjacent-frequency downstream digital transport streams.
--
Ian

In message , Terry Casey
writes
Mark Carver wrote:
J G Miller wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:25:24 +0000, Charles asked:

how do you think cable services get their signals?

Some cable companies get their signal for some radio and TV stations
direct from the radio or TV station rather than from an off air
signal.
I'm not aware of any that do that.


Cable & Wireless (now part of Virgin Media, of course) did.

Originally they received BSkyB signals via satellite and repackaged
them but there was an overhead involved in this.

Later, when they got a direct feed from BSkyB, they were able to
package them much more efficiently into fewer Transport Streams.

Ditto Telewest.
--
Ian