Selkirk analogue switchoff process

Digital UK, whom I'm inclined to trust as accurate, say that the
switchover of the Selkirk transmitter starts in one month's time on the
6th November with just BBC2 replaced by a digital mux and the rest
switching over on the 20th November:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when/border/selkirk

But... according to ukfree.tv, which comes top of the Google search for
"Selkirk TV", Selkirk will have a period of full dual-running of all the
analogue and digital channels between the 15th November and the
switchover (at an unspecified date). But if that's true, then why
couldn't that have been done before now? It looks messed up, but where
did they get the channel numbers from? And what's this *seventh* mux
called Mux NEW7 that appears after the switchover? Scroll half way down
this page:

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=NT500294

--
Dave Farrance

On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:47:11 +0000, Dave Farrance wrote:
But... according to ukfree.tv, which comes top of the Google search
for "Selkirk TV", Selkirk will have a period of full dual-running
of all the analogue and digital channels between the 15th November
and the switchover (at an unspecified date).

Yes dual running between November 15th of *which* year, and the switchoff
date of the analog transmissions which Mr Briantist has yet to insert
into his database?

But if that's true, then why couldn't that have been done before now?
Why could what have not been done before now?

MB21 shows the same information, less the digital multiplexes
transmission launch date, at

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/selkirk.php

It looks messed up
The layout of the site is not the best, and some of the material
is purely speculative.

but where did they get the channel numbers from?
The BBC used to list the digital multiplex transmitters and their
channel allocations, but they now point you to the Digital TV Group
web site which at

http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/tx_ne.html

shows you the channels currently in use at Selkirk for the digital
multiplexes and their respective powers.

Multiplex 1 2 A B C D
Selkirk ch53 ch57 ch60 ch63 ch66 ch56
C/D H 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 0,5 kW 0,5 kW


And what's this *seventh* mux called Mux NEW7
Where interleaved spectrum is available, OFCon have suggested,
plans tentative, your mileage may vary, it may never happen, the
possibility of a low power seventh multiplex and in some locations even
an eight low power multiplex which could be used for local services, if
the channel is not auctioned off to non-broadcast services.

Dave Farrance wrote:
And what's this *seventh* mux
called Mux NEW7 that appears after the switchover? Scroll half way down
this page:

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=NT500294

I suspect it's from the Ofcom paper about the *possibility* of *some* areas
having a additional mux to carry local TV services. It's buried on Ofcom's
utterly useless mess of a website, but I can't find it. Needless to say that
uk.free site is using rather optimistic speculation (and I'm trying very hard
to be nice about them)

As for post DSO allocations etc, bookmark this (coz you'll never be able to
find it otherwise !)

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/tech/dsodetails/



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

J G Miller wrote:

Yes dual running between November 15th of *which* year, and the switchoff
date of the analog transmissions which Mr Briantist has yet to insert
into his database?

Ah. My confusion was caused by DigitalUK, the people responsible for the
Digit-Al campaign, who give the guidance that for the Selkirk
transmitter, BBC2 is replaced by a digital mux on 6-Nov-2008, and then
on 20-Nov-2008 the other analogue channels are replaced by the remaining
digital muxes. i.e. they are saying in effect that it's the same deal as
last year's Whitehaven switchover, where there was only enough channel
space for analogue *or* digital channels but not both:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when/border/selkirk

But that's nonsense is it? Presumably DigitalUK is just cut-and-pasting
last year's advice. Selkirk has been dual running since 1998 according
to ukfree.tv. (Because of what DigitalUK said, I misread the year as
2008.)

http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=NT500294


http://www.dtg.org.uk/retailer/tx_ne.html

shows you the channels currently in use at Selkirk for the digital
multiplexes and their respective powers.

Multiplex 1 2 A B C D
Selkirk ch53 ch57 ch60 ch63 ch66 ch56
C/D H 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 3,0 kW 0,5 kW 0,5 kW


And what's this *seventh* mux called Mux NEW7
Where interleaved spectrum is available, OFCon have suggested,
plans tentative, your mileage may vary, it may never happen, the
possibility of a low power seventh multiplex and in some locations even
an eight low power multiplex which could be used for local services, if
the channel is not auctioned off to non-broadcast services.

Thanks for the info.

--
Dave Farrance

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:28:35 +0000, Dave Farrance wrote:
My confusion was caused by DigitalUK, the people responsible for
the Digit-Al campaign, who give the guidance that for the Selkirk
transmitter

Oh, well that is okay then, since they are just doing there job of
making people more confused than ever about what happens during
analog switch off.

they are saying in effect that it's the same deal
as last year's Whitehaven switchover, where there was only enough
channel space for analogue *or* digital channels but not both

The key is in the title "The Selkirk transmitter *group*"

Selkirk is already transmitting the digital multiplexes, but the
associated relays are not. Of course they omit this fact, since
they want to give people the impression that something new is
going to be available, when in fact the people using the relays
are actually going to lose bandwidth.

There will only be three 8 MHz channels for the three PSB multiplexes
broadcast from the relays compared to four channels previous used for the
analog channels.

These people will only get "half a Freeview" service, and even
less when PSB-2 changes to DVB-t2 MPEG-4 and the viewers do not see the
need to go out and buy *another* new box only 12 months after having to
buy a digital box.

Thanks for the info.

You are welcome :+)

If you are confused, what about the thousands of non-digital-non-
technical aware people who are going to be subject to B$kyB marketing
concerning analog switchover?

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Dave Farrance wrote:
And what's this *seventh* mux
called Mux NEW7 that appears after the switchover? Scroll half way down
this page:

http://www.ukfree.tv/shutdowndetail.php?tx=NT500294

I suspect it's from the Ofcom paper about the *possibility* of *some*
areas having a additional mux to carry local TV services. It's buried on
Ofcom's utterly useless mess of a website, but I can't find it. Needless
to say that uk.free site is using rather optimistic speculation (and I'm
trying very hard to be nice about them)

As for post DSO allocations etc, bookmark this (coz you'll never be able
to find it otherwise !)

Earlier this year I felt the need to complain to Ofcom about
a telephony matter, and as an aside, I also complained
about how difficult it was to find an appropriate web-response
form on their site. This is the response I got.


....Turning now to your comments about Ofcom's website. The design of the
complaints section is based on extensive experience of what people complain
about. It also takes account of how best to handle those complaints which
fall outside the common areas of consumer concern which the site is set up
to address.
In the past we offered general complaint forms across the whole of the
Complain to Ofcom portal. However, we found this was counter-productive from
the consumer's perspective. Often, the details of each complaint were not
clear when Ofcom followed them up on the online form from the consumer; so
we had to go back to the consumer for more detail, sometimes on more than
one occasion.
Therefore it was decided it was more effective to ask people to phone the
Ofcom Advisory Team (OAT) directly so they can explore the details of an
issue in real time and give advice in real time. This has since proven to
be the most effective way to explore more detailed and/or less common
concerns.
Yours sincerely
Steven Parker
Central Operations, Telecoms Team

Or on other words, don't put your complaint in writing, in case
you aren't articulate enough. Charming.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Mark Carver wrote:

I suspect it's from the Ofcom paper about the *possibility* of *some*
areas having a additional mux to carry local TV services. It's buried on
Ofcom's utterly useless mess of a website, but I can't find it.

15 hours later, here it is:-

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ddr/reports/



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Graham. wrote:

Or on other words, don't put your complaint in writing, in case
you aren't articulate enough. Charming.

I really do wonder at times for whose benefit Ofcom think they exist for ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
I really do wonder at times for whose benefit Ofcom think they exist for ?
Deep down in their collective heart, they know that they exist for
themselves. OFCOM like all other quangos, local authorities, large
corporations, and national governments, is a self-perpetuating oligarchy
existing primarily for the benefit of a small clique.

I don't blame them because I put it down to the essential selfishness that
has made humanity great! However it seems to me that those of us who are
excessively selfish (or perhaps not selfless enough) seem to gravitate
towards these positions.

Bill

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
Mark Carver wrote:

I suspect it's from the Ofcom paper about the *possibility* of *some*
areas having a additional mux to carry local TV services. It's buried on
Ofcom's utterly useless mess of a website, but I can't find it.

15 hours later, here it is:-

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ddr/reports/

Mark, why don't you apply to OFCOM for a job as Website Guider? People could
ring you on a £1 per minute helpline and you could guide them towards the
page they need. Maybe even take over their mouse pointer by some arcane
magic and do it that way?

Bill