How international are Freeview boxes?

On 2008-09-26, Boltar wrote:
On Sep 26, 9:27 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
Playing a CD in your house doesn't interfere with a neighbours one.
Whats that got to do with anything? Have you heard of analogue radio
which has precisely 2 standards AM & FM and you can buy an analogue
radio which works anywhere in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_wave:

"Stereo transmission is possible and offered by some stations in the
U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Australia,
The Philippines, Japan, South Korea, South Africa, and France.
However, there are multiple standards for AM stereo with C-QUAM
being the most common in the United States as well as other countries,
and receivers that implement the technologies are relatively rare.

In September 2002, the United States Federal Communications Commission
approved the proprietary iBiquity in-band on-channel (IBOC) HD Radio
system of digital audio broadcasting, which is meant to improve the
audio quality of signals. The Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) IBOC system
has been approved by the ITU for use outside North America and U.S.
territories."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fm_radio

"Digital services are now also available. A 57 kHz subcarrier (phase
locked to the third harmonic of the stereo pilot tone) is used to carry
a low-bandwidth digital Radio Data System signal, providing extra
features such as Alternative Frequency (AF) and Network (NN). This
narrowband signal runs at only 1187.5 bits per second, thus is only
suitable for text. A few proprietary systems are used for private
communications. A variant of RDS is the North American RBDS or "Smart
radio" system while in Germany a system called ARI is used for
broadcasting traffic announcements to motorists (without disturbing
other listeners) RDS is designed to be capable of being used alongside
ARI despite using identical subcarrier frequencies.

In the United States, digital radio services are being deployed
within the FM band rather than using Eureka 147 or the Japanese
standard ISDB. This in-band on-channel approach, as do all digital
radio techniques, makes use of advanced compressed audio. The
proprietary iBiquity system, branded as "HD Radio", currently is
authorized for "hybrid" mode operation, wherein both the conventional
analog FM carrier and digital sideband subcarriers are transmitted."

"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On Sep 25, 9:39 pm, J G Miller wrote:
Furthermore, DVB-t in France is broadcast both in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4
encoding, so a box sold exclusivel for any market (UKofGB&NI, Germany,
Vlaanderen etc) where MPEG-4 is not used, will obviously not decode
the MPEG-4 multiplexes.

And in addition, in the DVB-t world, the UKofGB&NI uses MHEG, whereas
everybody else uses MHP for interactive services.

And there was me thinking that at least digital TV could have been
standardised in europe even if analog TV and digital radio were a lost
cause. But no, obviously that would just be too damn simple for all
the vested interests. Why does this always happen? You wouldn't expect
a CD to be in a different format if you bought it in france so what
the hell is it with broadcast media that they just can't agree on
anything?

B2003


The root of the problem here is a simple one.
Liscense fee's
If it wasnt for that then we would probably have top knotch standards for
everyone.

On Sep 26, 10:01 am, "André Coutanche" wrote:
Boltar wrote:
Whats that got to do with anything? Have you heard of analogue radio
which has precisely 2 standards AM & FM and you can buy an analogue
radio which works anywhere in the world?

Up to a point ... Others here can quote chapter and verse better then
me, but doesn't pre-emphasis on FM differ between continents?

Yes , but its unnoticable on anything less than hi fi equipment , it
certainly doesn't prevent you listening to US FM radio on a european
radio. I speak from personal experience.

Certainly LW is used for AM in some parts of the world but not
others - so a radio bought with no LW band in the U.S., say, will be
incomplete as a receiver in Europe. There may be other frequency
allocation differences as well, and possibly channel-spacing issues.

If its a pure analog tuner then channel spacing doesn't matter much
but most digital radios have a switch or setup flag that can be
flipped from 9 to 10Khz for AM

B2003

On Sep 26, 10:07 am, Paul Murray wrote:
On 2008-09-26, Boltar wrote:

On Sep 26, 9:27 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
Playing a CD in your house doesn't interfere with a neighbours one.
Whats that got to do with anything? Have you heard of analogue radio
which has precisely 2 standards AM & FM and you can buy an analogue
radio which works anywhere in the world?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_wave:

"Stereo transmission is possible and offered by some stations in the
U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, Paraguay, Australia,
The Philippines, Japan, South Korea, South Africa, and France.

So what? You can still listen to stereo AM with a mono AM radio. Try
listening to IBOC with a DAB radio or watching MPEG4 with an MPEG2
decoder.


In September 2002, the United States Federal Communications Commission
approved the proprietary iBiquity in-band on-channel (IBOC) HD Radio
system of digital audio broadcasting, which is meant to improve the
audio quality of signals. The Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) IBOC system
has been approved by the ITU for use outside North America and U.S.
territories."

Err, thats digital radio, I said analogue.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fm_radio

"Digital services are now also available. A 57 kHz subcarrier (phase
locked to the third harmonic of the stereo pilot tone) is used to carry
a low-bandwidth digital Radio Data System signal, providing extra

Yes , I'm very impressed with your cut and paste abilities but how
does RDS prevent a US radio from receiving EU FM broadcasts exactly?

B2003

In article
,
Boltar wrote:
Playing a CD in your house doesn't interfere with a neighbours one.

Whats that got to do with anything? Have you heard of analogue radio
which has precisely 2 standards AM & FM and you can buy an analogue
radio which works anywhere in the world?

You've not noticed interference on AM from distant transmitters? Weird.

BTW - FM radios are not the same worldwide.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Boltar wrote:
If its a pure analog tuner then channel spacing doesn't matter much
but most digital radios have a switch or setup flag that can be
flipped from 9 to 10Khz for AM

You can buy multi-standard TVs too.

--
*Vegetarians taste great*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Boltar wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:01 am, "André Coutanche" wrote:
Boltar wrote:
Whats that got to do with anything? Have you heard of analogue radio
which has precisely 2 standards AM & FM and you can buy an analogue
radio which works anywhere in the world?
Up to a point ... Others here can quote chapter and verse better then
me, but doesn't pre-emphasis on FM differ between continents?

Yes , but its unnoticable on anything less than hi fi equipment , it
certainly doesn't prevent you listening to US FM radio on a european
radio. I speak from personal experience.

Yes, me too.

Mind you, the FM radio band in Japan runs from 76 MHz to about 96 MHz,
that does cause difficulties, notably some Japanese 'grey import' cars
and car radios that find themselves in 88-108 regions.

Of course, the radio I travel round the world with covers 76-108 MHz
for FM :-)

In article
s.com, Boltar scribeth thus
On Sep 25, 9:39 pm, J G Miller wrote:
Furthermore, DVB-t in France is broadcast both in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4
encoding, so a box sold exclusivel for any market (UKofGB&NI, Germany,
Vlaanderen etc) where MPEG-4 is not used, will obviously not decode
the MPEG-4 multiplexes.

And in addition, in the DVB-t world, the UKofGB&NI uses MHEG, whereas
everybody else uses MHP for interactive services.

And there was me thinking that at least digital TV could have been
standardised in europe even if analog TV and digital radio were a lost
cause. But no, obviously that would just be too damn simple for all
the vested interests. Why does this always happen? You wouldn't expect
a CD to be in a different format if you bought it in france so what
the hell is it with broadcast media that they just can't agree on
anything?

B2003


To a greater extent European wide satellite seems quite compatible..

Encryption standards apart...
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:24:46 -0700, Boltar wrote:
And there was me thinking that at least digital TV could have been
standardised in europe
It is, for the most part -- it is the DVB-T standard, it
is the parameters which are used which vary, and whether
VHF frequencies are used in addition to UHF frequencies.

Because the UKofGB&NI jumped into DVB-T right at the start,
8k FFT chips were significantly more expensive than the slower
2k FFT chips for the receiver-decoders, the powers that be in the
UKofGB&NI decided to make 2k FFT the national standard, so as
not to impose even more of a financial burden on uptake.

The FFT parameter is going to be changed from 2k to 8k sometime
during or after DSO depending on region. All new models sold in
the UKofGB&NI since sometime around 2004/2005 have been 8k capable,
so this is not an issue except for people with ancient On Digital
or the first "Freeview" boxes. And some of the latter, which
did not observe the DVB-t standard and assumed that the split-NIT
feature of DVB-t would never be implemented within the lifetime
of the box, have already been rendered obsolete.

With reference to MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 compatibility, this again
has been the result of a moving target, with MPEG-4 being the
newer encoding technique which has only become commercially
and technically mature in the last five or so years, and was
not available when DVB-t launched in the UKofGB&NI back in 1998.

With regard to interactive services, the UKofGB&NI decided to use
the simpler MHEG whereas most other DVB-t countries opted for the
more advanced MHP system, but it should be noted that interactive
services are very thin on the ground in other countries, and the
BBC has one of the most well developed services which just happens
to use MHEG. Incidentally, some countries do not even have an EPG.

As to the compatibility of satellite transmissions, since most
broadcasters use DVB-s MPEG-2, then most transmissions are compatible
with all boxes. But broadcasters are now using MPEG-4 for HD
broadcasts, so to view those you need a satellite receiver with
MPEG-4 capabilities, and some broadcasters have started to use
not only MPEG-4 encoding bus also DVB-s2, so you also need a receiver
which also has DVB-s2 capability.

In short, the current system is

terrestrial DVB-t MPEG-2 with some MPEG-4 (eg subscription services in
France)

satellite DVB-s MPEG-2 with some MPEG-4 for HD and a few DVB-s2 MPEG-4
as well

The future is

terrestrial DVB-t2 MPEG-4 (to be introduced in Granada region 2009)

satellite DVB-s2 MPEG-4 (already available for some HD services)

In North America, terrestrial DTV uses ATSC which is incompatible with
DVB-t.

J G Miller wrote:
: On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:24:46 -0700, Boltar wrote:
: And there was me thinking that at least digital TV could have been
: standardised in europe
: It is, for the most part -- it is the DVB-T standard, it
: is the parameters which are used which vary, and whether
: VHF frequencies are used in addition to UHF frequencies.

In addition to what you describe it seems that EPGs are another non-standard
area! At least both the Freeview and Freesat ones are UK specific (to
provide for features - like "red button" facilities) that the broadcasters
want.