24 fps, blue ray and my telly.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:44:29 GMT, Roger Wilmut
wrote:

The 25fps solution is the least worst. Apart from the occasional person
with perfect pitch, the 4% (2/3 semitone) increase is barely
detectable.

I haven't got perfect pitch and I can tell quite easily when something has
been speeded up by 4%. It's very noticeable on music, especially if you know
the piece.
When I worked in radio I was told the most you could get away with without
most people noticing was 2%.

In article , Paul Ratcliffe
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:44:29 GMT, Roger Wilmut
wrote:

The 25fps solution is the least worst. Apart from the occasional person
with perfect pitch, the 4% (2/3 semitone) increase is barely
detectable.

I haven't got perfect pitch and I can tell quite easily when something has
been speeded up by 4%. It's very noticeable on music, especially if you know
the piece.
When I worked in radio I was told the most you could get away with without
most people noticing was 2%.

It's more noticeable if you don't have a picture to distract you: and
of course some people notice it more than others. I still think that
showing films at 25 fps with the pitch shift is preferable to the
unpleasant video artefacts which arise with the conversion to 24fps,
but of course the properly implemented BluRay 24fps is the ideal
solution (not that that helps with transmissions).

"Roger Wilmut" wrote in message
. ..


It's more noticeable if you don't have a picture to distract you: and
of course some people notice it more than others. I still think that
showing films at 25 fps with the pitch shift is preferable to the
unpleasant video artefacts which arise with the conversion to 24fps,
but of course the properly implemented BluRay 24fps is the ideal
solution (not that that helps with transmissions).




pitch shift isnt needed though - there's plenty of dvds out there where for
the PAL ( yes i know a dvd actually isnt) release they have pitch corrected
the sound.
sure the tempo is still different but i don't notice that ( or haven't
yet ).



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....

In article , Roger Wilmut
wrote:
In article , Paul Ratcliffe
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:44:29 GMT, Roger Wilmut
wrote:

The 25fps solution is the least worst. Apart from the occasional
person with perfect pitch, the 4% (2/3 semitone) increase is barely
detectable.

I haven't got perfect pitch and I can tell quite easily when something
has been speeded up by 4%. It's very noticeable on music, especially if
you know the piece. When I worked in radio I was told the most you
could get away with without most people noticing was 2%.

It's more noticeable if you don't have a picture to distract you: and of
course some people notice it more than others. I still think that showing
films at 25 fps with the pitch shift is preferable to the unpleasant
video artefacts which arise with the conversion to 24fps, but of course
the properly implemented BluRay 24fps is the ideal solution (not that
that helps with transmissions).

Very few people notice the 4% speed up on tv films. I did once have
someone complain on the phone about this, but the particular film was about
a composer's life and featured at lot of classical music. The compainant
said he had perfect pitch.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

The dog from that film you saw wrote:

pitch shift isnt needed though - there's plenty of dvds out there where
for the PAL ( yes i know a dvd actually isnt) release they have pitch
corrected the sound.
sure the tempo is still different but i don't notice that ( or haven't
yet ).

Almost twenty years ago, one of the small regional ITV companies were looking
for a customised solution from professional VTR manufacturers to be able to
speed up or slow down playback, with appropriate pitch correction, so that
they could make feature films fit into network time slots, without the need to
edit them.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:49:18 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

Almost twenty years ago, one of the small regional ITV companies were looking
for a customised solution from professional VTR manufacturers to be able to
speed up or slow down playback, with appropriate pitch correction, so that
they could make feature films fit into network time slots, without the need to
edit them.

Did Mr. Sony (or whoever) ever produce such a solution? If so, was it used
and how long for?

In message , charles
writes
In article , Roger Wilmut
wrote:
In article , Paul Ratcliffe
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:44:29 GMT, Roger Wilmut
wrote:

The 25fps solution is the least worst. Apart from the occasional
person with perfect pitch, the 4% (2/3 semitone) increase is barely
detectable.

I haven't got perfect pitch and I can tell quite easily when something
has been speeded up by 4%. It's very noticeable on music, especially if
you know the piece. When I worked in radio I was told the most you
could get away with without most people noticing was 2%.

It's more noticeable if you don't have a picture to distract you: and of
course some people notice it more than others. I still think that showing
films at 25 fps with the pitch shift is preferable to the unpleasant
video artefacts which arise with the conversion to 24fps, but of course
the properly implemented BluRay 24fps is the ideal solution (not that
that helps with transmissions).

Very few people notice the 4% speed up on tv films. I did once have
someone complain on the phone about this, but the particular film was about
a composer's life and featured at lot of classical music. The compainant
said he had perfect pitch.

When I was a young lad (in the 1950s), and used to play skiffle, I
couldn't afford one of those pitch pipe devices you could use to tune
your guitar with. Also, I rarely had access to a piano. Instead, I took
my pitch reference by playing 78rpm Pye Nixa Lonnie Donegan records.
These seemed to be accurate. However, the pitch of many other performers
of the time, on different record labels, could not be relied on to give
the correct pitch reference. One of these was Elvis Presley who, I
believe, was on RCA. Unlike skiffle music (which was usually in the
'natural' guitar keys of E, C, G, D etc) Elvis songs were always in the
more 'traditional' orchestral keys (in something sharp or something
flat). More important to me, the pitch was always midway between two
correct-pitch semitones.

I would have thought that the record companies would have gone to great
lengths to ensure that they got the pitch correct. Presumably the error
was caused by something in the chain being processed at the wrong speed.
Was I mistaken, or was there some subtle reason for these differences?
--
Ian

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
The dog from that film you saw wrote:

pitch shift isnt needed though - there's plenty of dvds out there where
for the PAL ( yes i know a dvd actually isnt) release they have pitch
corrected the sound.
sure the tempo is still different but i don't notice that ( or haven't
yet ).

Almost twenty years ago, one of the small regional ITV companies were
looking for a customised solution from professional VTR manufacturers to
be able to speed up or slow down playback, with appropriate pitch
correction, so that they could make feature films fit into network time
slots, without the need to edit them.




and then they realised benny hill might sue the film makers mistakenly
thinking they were ripping him off.



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....

"charles" wrote in message
...
Very few people notice the 4% speed up on tv films. I did once have
someone complain on the phone about this, but the particular film was
about
a composer's life and featured at lot of classical music. The compainant
said he had perfect pitch.

He was just showing off then, really.

Bill

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:49:18 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

Almost twenty years ago, one of the small regional ITV companies were looking
for a customised solution from professional VTR manufacturers to be able to
speed up or slow down playback, with appropriate pitch correction, so that
they could make feature films fit into network time slots, without the need to
edit them.

Did Mr. Sony (or whoever) ever produce such a solution? If so, was it used
and how long for?

The idea was to use a D2 digital-composite VTR, which did offer non 'unity'
playback speeds, lots of experiments were done, but I don't recall it was ever
used in anger. The ITV company concerned lost its franchise a couple of years
later anyway.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.