psychological problem

In article , David Taylor
wrote:
Revamping the
entire system and flogging millions of new displays to the public seems
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
like a pointless expense if you're going to continue shooting rubbish and
feeding it through a data-mangling transmission system.

Isn't that the point?

That depends on who you are. If your job is flogging equipment then I suppose
the point of television is to flog equipment, but if you're a viewer, then the
point of television is programmes, and you just want to be able to see them
properly. Of all the people in the world whose lives are touched by
television, I should think viewers outnumber all the rest by a considerable
margin.

Rod.
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On Jul 23, 12:28*pm, Mark Carver wrote:

I think you would notice the difference on a 26ish inch display, though
what hits you first is the vast reduction of compression artefacts,
rather than spacial resolution at that size.

C4 HD with its upconverted SD programming looks fantastic (at current HD
bit rates and coding), much better than clean analogue reception of the
same broadcast.

Define 'clean analogue reception'.
The analogue pictures from Winter Hill have all the artefacts of an
MPEG2 feed, except for the extreme pixellation which DTH digital
viewers are used to. Movement is not tracked accurately/naturally,
objects blur while they are moving, twitter ('flickering' around sharp
objects) is very noticible and surface textures of objects are not
clearly defined.
Some of this can also be attributed to the aspect ratio conversion to
14:9.

Graham wrote:

The term is historical. Studio cameras used to be two part affairs The
familiar bits was linked by a thick cables to a rack of Camera Control
Units where a "Racks Engineer" made the adjustments using a picture monitor
and much more importantly a waveform monitor and vectorscope.
Well, how did I do?

Not bad. Though 'camera channels' as they're called still have the main two
components. The camera head, which contains the image sensors, and has the
lens and viewfinder bolted on, connected by triaxial cable or fibre optic to
the CCU (Camera Control Unit). The CCU lives in the apparatus room, or inside
the OB truck. Then each CCU has an RCP or OCP (Remote/Operational Control
panel). This normally has a joystick to control iris settings, and controls
for white balance, black balance, gamma correction, gain, etc. The cameraman
only has control of pan, tilt, zoom and focus, all other parameters are
controlled by the vision or 'racks' engineer in the control room/OB tech area.
The Europeans call this function 'shading'. Some systems will also have an MSU
(Master Set Up unit) where many of the set up parameters can be globally
applied to more than one camera at once.

Sony RCP :-

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=RCP-750&site=biz_en_GB&pageType=Overview&imageType=Mai n&category=ControlSystems

Sony MSU:-

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=MSU-900&site=biz_en_GB&pageType=Overview&imageType=Mai n&category=ControlSystems

Sony CCU:-

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=HDCU-1500&site=biz_en_GB&pageType=Overview&imageType=Ma in&category=ControlSystems

Sony HD Camera Head:-

http://www.sony.co.uk/biz/view/ShowProduct.action?product=HDC-1500&site=biz_en_GB&pageType=Overview&imageType=Ma in&category=HDseries


(Other manufacturers of broadcast camera equipment are available)




--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

wrote:

Define 'clean analogue reception'.

A signal from an analogue transmitter fed from a lightly or zero compressed
digital link.
Like Crystal Palace for instance.

The analogue pictures from Winter Hill have all the artefacts of an
MPEG2 feed, except for the extreme pixellation which DTH digital
viewers are used to. Movement is not tracked accurately/naturally,
objects blur while they are moving, twitter ('flickering' around sharp
objects) is very noticible and surface textures of objects are not
clearly defined.

Oh well, Winter Hill analogue will be shutting down for good next year, so
none of that will trouble you :-)

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Jul 27, 3:25*pm, Mark Carver wrote:
wrote:
Define 'clean analogue reception'.

A signal from an analogue transmitter fed from a lightly or zero compressed
digital link.
Like Crystal Palace for instance.

What sort of digital link would that be then? Also, how much of is
ARCd 14:9, and how many horizontal samples are there? It's looking
less like clean analogue after all, isn't it

The analogue pictures from Winter Hill have all the artefacts of an
MPEG2 feed, except for the extreme pixellation which DTH digital
viewers are used to. Movement is not tracked accurately/naturally,
objects blur while they are moving, twitter ('flickering' around sharp
objects) is very noticible and surface textures of objects are not
clearly defined.

Oh well, Winter Hill analogue will be shutting down for good next year, so
none of that will trouble you :-)

I rarely watch broadcast television in any of its forms and when I do
it's usually German analogue (yes I speak German).

wrote:
On Jul 27, 3:25 pm, Mark Carver wrote:
wrote:
Define 'clean analogue reception'.
A signal from an analogue transmitter fed from a lightly or zero compressed
digital link.
Like Crystal Palace for instance.

What sort of digital link would that be then?

A BT 'Facilityline' circuit, which London is festooned with. 270 Mb/s
uncompressed SDI. Or an Energis (or is it C&W now ?) 140 Mb/s composite link,
to name but two.

Also, how much of is
ARCd 14:9, and how many horizontal samples are there? It's looking
less like clean analogue after all, isn't it

I muck around with ARCs quite often, I've not noticed any artefacts looking at
the output on pro kit, that's not to say there aren't. I'll stick a frequency
sweep though one next time I'm playing. I thought it's commonly accepted that
UK analogue transmission, with clean reception, (and a decent input feed to
the Tx) looks subjectively better for most than DVB. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'm no
where near Winter Hill's service area, so I can't comment on that Tx (though
you seem to be the only person on Usenet that has a problem with its analogue
quality ?)



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver wrote:
The term is historical. Studio cameras used to be two part affairs The
familiar bits was linked by a thick cables to a rack of Camera Control
Units where a "Racks Engineer" made the adjustments using a picture monitor
and much more importantly a waveform monitor and vectorscope.
Well, how did I do?

Not bad. Though 'camera channels' as they're called still have the main two
components. The camera head, which contains the image sensors, and has the
lens and viewfinder bolted on, connected by triaxial cable or fibre optic to
the CCU (Camera Control Unit).

The "camera head" part used to be just that, incapable of any function on its
own, with only the most vital electronic circuitry that had to be close to the
tubes, the bulk of the circuitry including all the clever video processing being
in the CCU, even the PAL/NTSC encoding being in yet another separate box.

Nowadays a camera head is usually a complete camera including PAL/NTSC and
digital processing and its own sync pulse generator with genlock. Even if it
doesn't include a recording machine as well, it will usually be capable of
providing a fully formed composite or digital video output, working with its
circuits in preset or "auto" mode without any control unit or pulse generator
being connected to it. And it won't need four people to lift it. Times change.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
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In article 0c074c69-30fd-4abf-8006-
, wrote:
I rarely watch broadcast television in any of its forms and when I do
it's usually German analogue (yes I speak German).

I don't speak German but sometimes watch their transport TV channel on the
internet - "Bahn TV". They have a great programme at 2330 (our time) where
they just clamp a camera on the front of a train and broadcast the entire
journey, usually an hour or so. It's completely mindless, but surprisingly
restful to watch. There is no commentary, no music, no camera moves, no
gimmicks whatsoever, just a brief scrolling caption telling the name of
each station as we approach. No, I'm not a train freak. It's just like
going on a journey and being able to watch the scenery because somebody
else is driving. It must cost only buttons to produce, so I wonder why
nobody else has thought of it.

Rod.
--
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:16:20 +0100, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

...
It must cost only buttons to produce, so I wonder why
nobody else has thought of it.

Do you remember the 'Victoria to Brighton' in one minute in the '50s?

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message .myzen.co.uk...
In article 0c074c69-30fd-4abf-8006-
, wrote:
I rarely watch broadcast television in any of its forms and when I do
it's usually German analogue (yes I speak German).

I don't speak German but sometimes watch their transport TV channel on the
internet - "Bahn TV". They have a great programme at 2330 (our time) where
they just clamp a camera on the front of a train and broadcast the entire
journey, usually an hour or so. It's completely mindless, but surprisingly
restful to watch. There is no commentary, no music, no camera moves, no
gimmicks whatsoever, just a brief scrolling caption telling the name of
each station as we approach. No, I'm not a train freak. It's just like
going on a journey and being able to watch the scenery because somebody
else is driving. It must cost only buttons to produce, so I wonder why
nobody else has thought of it.

3-sat used to do this with a road journey every night after closedown. I've
often thought about recording the output from the cameras on my van, as
evidence when some clot crashes into me.

Bill