Shy HD and DD 5.1 over HDMI

"Agamemnon" wrote:

WRONG!

What you quote above is a blatant lie and trading standards should take
action against HDMI.org for misleading the consumer. My DVD player can play
DVD-Audio discs BUT with will NOT output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio
from a DVD-Audio disc or anything else if it is COPYRIGHTED! Note the word
COPYRIGHTED! If the material is COPYRIGHTED HDMI will NOT output it unless
it is resampled to 48kHz.

"When playing back a copyright-protected 96kHz (88.2kHz) linear PCM DVD, the
digital sound will be down-sampled at 48kHz (44.1kHz), even if you set LPCM
to OFF" Denon DVD-1920 manual. HDCP 1.1

?????????

Asperger syndrome maybe?

--
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:

?????????

Asperger syndrome maybe?


No, just a Denon DVD-1920 in need of skipping....

--
Adrian C

Adrian C wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:

?????????
Asperger syndrome maybe?

No, just a Denon DVD-1920 in need of skipping....

Well, any piece of equipment will have limits of one sort or another...

But Aggie saying that there's a unit that doesn't do everything in the
standards and so the standards are a lie and the standards body should be
sued looks.. um... cognitively challenged.

--
Dave Farrance

Mike Henry wrote:

So then, if we say that the Denon DVD-1920 is in the "bad" camp of devices
which are downsampling the audio from 96kHz to 48kHz, when there is
apparently no need to do so, my questions are
1. why does it do this, it is really just copyright rules or is there some
other limitation that makes this necessary?
1. do they all do this?
2. if not, which amps/dvd players don't do this?

I'd guess that multi-channel audio can't simply be extracted from a
received signal and passed essentially unchanged over an HDMI link, but
that there's a non-trivial encoding task for the HDMI output chip, and
that the encoding task would be more complex for DVD-audio quality or
multi-channel audio, so it would be down to the chips available on the
market.

I don't know the answer to your second and third query.

--
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance" wrote in message
...
"Agamemnon" wrote:

WRONG!

What you quote above is a blatant lie and trading standards should take
action against HDMI.org for misleading the consumer. My DVD player can
play
DVD-Audio discs BUT with will NOT output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz
audio
from a DVD-Audio disc or anything else if it is COPYRIGHTED! Note the word
COPYRIGHTED! If the material is COPYRIGHTED HDMI will NOT output it unless
it is resampled to 48kHz.

"When playing back a copyright-protected 96kHz (88.2kHz) linear PCM DVD,
the
digital sound will be down-sampled at 48kHz (44.1kHz), even if you set
LPCM
to OFF" Denon DVD-1920 manual. HDCP 1.1

?????????

Asperger syndrome maybe?

IDIOT!


--
Dave Farrance

"Agamemnon" wrote:

"Dave Farrance" wrote

Asperger syndrome maybe?

IDIOT!

Well, I wouldn't have run you down that far, but if you say so...

--
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance" wrote in message
...
Mike Henry wrote:

So then, if we say that the Denon DVD-1920 is in the "bad" camp of devices
which are downsampling the audio from 96kHz to 48kHz, when there is
apparently no need to do so, my questions are
1. why does it do this, it is really just copyright rules or is there some
other limitation that makes this necessary?
1. do they all do this?
2. if not, which amps/dvd players don't do this?

I'd guess that multi-channel audio can't simply be extracted from a
received signal and passed essentially unchanged over an HDMI link, but
that there's a non-trivial encoding task for the HDMI output chip, and
that the encoding task would be more complex for DVD-audio quality or

The encoding task would be more complex down-sampling a 96kHz LPCM stream to
48kHz and re-encoding it than leaving it intact as a 5.1/6.1/7.1 LPCM stream
and letting the amp decode it raw. After all if no copyright flag is set the
96kHz LPCM stream goes straight though to the amp unchanged anyway.

multi-channel audio, so it would be down to the chips available on the
market.

I don't know the answer to your second and third query.

--
Dave Farrance

"Agamemnon" wrote:

"Dave Farrance" wrote
I'd guess that multi-channel audio can't simply be extracted from a
received signal and passed essentially unchanged over an HDMI link, but
that there's a non-trivial encoding task for the HDMI output chip, and
that the encoding task would be more complex for DVD-audio quality or

The encoding task would be more complex down-sampling a 96kHz LPCM stream to
48kHz and re-encoding it than leaving it intact as a 5.1/6.1/7.1 LPCM stream
and letting the amp decode it raw. After all if no copyright flag is set the
96kHz LPCM stream goes straight though to the amp unchanged anyway.

The down-sampling would have to be included anyway for the situation
where the downstream unit was non-HDCP -- and so it would be simpler for
the silicon of the HDMI encoder if it didn't have to handle top speed.

--
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:
Adrian C wrote:
No, just a Denon DVD-1920 in need of skipping....

Well, any piece of equipment will have limits of one sort or another...

But Aggie saying that there's a unit that doesn't do everything in the
standards and so the standards are a lie and the standards body should be
sued looks.. um... cognitively challenged.


Yes, I am reading that as well. His DVD player was designed in 2005 when
the fear of being found not adhering to the demands of film studios made
things a bit necessary for the manufacturers erring on the side of
caution.

Aggie, if you don't find a firmware upgrade out of this mess, then there
is a skip waiting with an empty space (or a freecycler waiting with open
arms...)

Oh, and calm down ....

--
Adrian C

Mike Henry wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:

The down-sampling would have to be included anyway for the situation
where the downstream unit was non-HDCP -- and so it would be simpler for
the silicon of the HDMI encoder if it didn't have to handle top speed.

Yes but simpler that doesn't mean impossible or not allowed, which is all
I'm trying to ascertain :-)

This 2005 article says that it was a limitation of the products then in
the marketplace and that it would take time for the audio companies to
include full-blown HDMI switching capability. That was over three years
ago, so hopefully things have changed.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talk-b...-audio-for-now

--
Dave Farrance