TOT computer hassle

In article , Roderick Stewart
wrote:


I'd have thought a good operating system should be capable of clearing
up its own garbage, or beter still not creating it in the first place,
but apparently it isn't.

The problem, I presume, is that the authors of programs cannae be bothered
to 'tidy up' all the temporary data when their program quits or the machine
shuts down. What I don't know is if that is lazyness on their part. Or if
they use standard tools for program creation that don't do this. Since I
don't use Windows much I dunno how much the OS is to blame, how much
applications, and how much the authors... Not exactly encouraging to see
'advice' to the effect that you have to do a re-install on a regular basis,
though. Looks like carelessness on someone's part... :-)

With the system I generally use the presumption is that all 'temporary'
files and data should go into a specific directory (folder) called -
unremarkably - 'scrap'. To ensure this vanishes I copy this to ramdisc at
bootup, and then allow it and its contents to evaporate when the machine is
shut down and switched off.

Imagine my lack of astonishment that some programs expect to keep
*permanent* data or sub-directory structures in 'scrap' to aid them in
configuring and recalling what you did with them last time they were run.
Looks like the meaning of the word 'scrap' isn't easily grasped by some
programmers. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , John
[email protected] wrote:


When I did an HNC in computing at Blackpool College, all the
lecturers advised a complete reformat of the hard drive and
reinstall of Windows about every 12 to 18 months. I took their
advice then and I still do, as it's very good advice.

S'no good, I've been trying to suppress my reactions to this thread,
but I can't do so any longer. :-)

To me, 'advice' like the above looks like the equivalent of saying
that Windows is so unreliable that it systematically and unavoidably
renders the machine unusuable.

The phenomenon of "windows rot" is well documented - Google throws up loads
of hits.

If so, my reaction would be to switch
to another OS, not put up with such a situation. The phrase 'not fit
for purpose' springs to my mind..

Although I could agree with you, it's not possible to change OS as
everything I need is mostly windows-only.

.. Although I can't be certain as I
virtually never use Windows. Would the people at Redmont give you the
same 'advice' as the ones at Blackpool, I wonder?...

Don't know and don't particularly care. It works for me and that's all that
matters.

John

On 13/05/2008 12:48, John wrote:

When I did an HNC in computing at Blackpool College, all the lecturers
advised a complete reformat of the hard drive and reinstall of Windows about
every 12 to 18 months. I took their advice then and I still do, as it's very
good advice.

I'd go so far as to say it's harmful advice, go into business and make
suggestions for inventing extra worklike that and see how long you last.

In article , John
[email protected] wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , John
[email protected] wrote:


When I did an HNC in computing at Blackpool College, all the
lecturers advised a complete reformat of the hard drive and reinstall
of Windows about every 12 to 18 months. I took their advice then and
I still do, as it's very good advice.

To me, 'advice' like the above looks like the equivalent of saying
that Windows is so unreliable that it systematically and unavoidably
renders the machine unusuable.

The phenomenon of "windows rot" is well documented - Google throws up
loads of hits.

If so, my reaction would be to switch
to another OS, not put up with such a situation. The phrase 'not fit
for purpose' springs to my mind..

Although I could agree with you, it's not possible to change OS as
everything I need is mostly windows-only.

You have my sympathy in that. I can understand that many people have the
'choice' of OS and application software imposed upon them by circumstances.
Not a situation I'd personally have been comfortable with.

Fortunately, in general, I have avoided that, and can usually either use
open filetypes or am able to import/export things like 'word' files without
needing Windows or any MicroSoft software. The main software I need is on
the OS I prefer, and I can write programs for other things as required.

Main exception in my case being presumably due to the dimwit programmers
employed by the AES to do the search software and data for their
back-issues on CDROM. This uses a closed system of metadata which requires
you to run complied routines with no source code made available. So I keep
a pet windows laptop purely for this purpose. Once found, though, the
journal and conference articles are all PDF so I can use them on my
preferred OS.

. Although I can't be certain as I
virtually never use Windows. Would the people at Redmont give you the
same 'advice' as the ones at Blackpool, I wonder?...

Don't know and don't particularly care. It works for me and that's all
that matters.

To me, that seems to contradict your previous statement about "windows
rot". Behaviour like that seems to limit the meaning of "works for me".
:-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Mike Henry wrote:
In , "John"
[email protected] wrote:
The phenomenon of "windows rot" is well documented - Google throws
up loads of hits.

AKA "cruft". This is my favourite one from
http://www.ddj.com/184405140 :

Content snipped in the interests of brevity but well worth a look at the
link above. That's brilliant Mike )

John

On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:12 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Roderick Stewart
wrote:


I'd have thought a good operating system should be capable of clearing
up its own garbage, or beter still not creating it in the first place,
but apparently it isn't.

The problem, I presume, is that the authors of programs cannae be bothered
to 'tidy up' all the temporary data when their program quits or the machine
shuts down. What I don't know is if that is lazyness on their part. Or if
they use standard tools for program creation that don't do this. Since I
don't use Windows much I dunno how much the OS is to blame, how much
applications, and how much the authors... Not exactly encouraging to see
'advice' to the effect that you have to do a re-install on a regular basis,
though. Looks like carelessness on someone's part... :-)

It's a bit of both really. The OS provides functions to create &
delete files (in Windows you can even create a file that automatically
is deleted when the file is closed). The application developers have
to use them properly to ensure that none are left lying about. Very
few developers seem to do this IME. IMHO the OS designers could do
more to make this easy since they provide too many ways of file
manipulation.

With the system I generally use the presumption is that all 'temporary'
files and data should go into a specific directory (folder) called -
unremarkably - 'scrap'. To ensure this vanishes I copy this to ramdisc at
bootup, and then allow it and its contents to evaporate when the machine is
shut down and switched off.

Imagine my lack of astonishment that some programs expect to keep
*permanent* data or sub-directory structures in 'scrap' to aid them in
configuring and recalling what you did with them last time they were run.
Looks like the meaning of the word 'scrap' isn't easily grasped by some
programmers. ;-

The OS designers could do more to enforce good practise like automatic
deletion of files in temporary directories.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , John
[email protected] wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , John
[email protected] wrote:


When I did an HNC in computing at Blackpool College, all the
lecturers advised a complete reformat of the hard drive and
reinstall of Windows about every 12 to 18 months. I took their
advice then and I still do, as it's very good advice.

To me, 'advice' like the above looks like the equivalent of saying
that Windows is so unreliable that it systematically and unavoidably
renders the machine unusuable.

The phenomenon of "windows rot" is well documented - Google throws up
loads of hits.

If so, my reaction would be to switch
to another OS, not put up with such a situation. The phrase 'not fit
for purpose' springs to my mind..

Although I could agree with you, it's not possible to change OS as
everything I need is mostly windows-only.

You have my sympathy in that. I can understand that many people have
the 'choice' of OS and application software imposed upon them by
circumstances. Not a situation I'd personally have been comfortable
with.

Fortunately, in general, I have avoided that, and can usually either
use open filetypes or am able to import/export things like 'word'
files without needing Windows or any MicroSoft software. The main
software I need is on the OS I prefer, and I can write programs for
other things as required.

Main exception in my case being presumably due to the dimwit
programmers employed by the AES to do the search software and data
for their back-issues on CDROM. This uses a closed system of metadata
which requires you to run complied routines with no source code made
available. So I keep a pet windows laptop purely for this purpose.
Once found, though, the journal and conference articles are all PDF
so I can use them on my preferred OS.

. Although I can't be certain as I
virtually never use Windows. Would the people at Redmont give you
the same 'advice' as the ones at Blackpool, I wonder?...

Don't know and don't particularly care. It works for me and that's
all that matters.

To me, that seems to contradict your previous statement about "windows
rot". Behaviour like that seems to limit the meaning of "works for
me". :-)

What I actually meant was, Windows has flaws but I can't do anything about
that and just have to grin and bear it. What I have done though is to
minimise my disruption and the effort I need to get round windows rot and to
do a reformat of the hard drive and reinstall of windows.

I use Acronis True Image to make an image of the hard drive after a clean
install of XP and all its updates. If or when I need to I can reformat the
HD and install that image in a matter of minutes. I also do another image
after installing all the software and all drivers I need, so I can flatten
the drive and be completely back up and running within about 30 minutes at
most.

John

In article , John
[email protected] wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


. Although I can't be certain as I
virtually never use Windows. Would the people at Redmont give you
the same 'advice' as the ones at Blackpool, I wonder?...

Don't know and don't particularly care. It works for me and that's
all that matters.

To me, that seems to contradict your previous statement about "windows
rot". Behaviour like that seems to limit the meaning of "works for
me". :-)

What I actually meant was, Windows has flaws but I can't do anything
about that and just have to grin and bear it.

Again, I can understand that you may have no real alternative but to use
software that only runs on Windows, so have to "grin and bear it". No doubt
you have investigated alternatives and found them untenable for what you
require.

But that does not seem to me the quite the same as "works for me". :-)

What I have done though is to minimise my disruption and the effort I
need to get round windows rot and to do a reformat of the hard drive and
reinstall of windows.

I use Acronis True Image to make an image of the hard drive after a
clean install of XP and all its updates. If or when I need to I can
reformat the HD and install that image in a matter of minutes. I also
do another image after installing all the software and all drivers I
need, so I can flatten the drive and be completely back up and running
within about 30 minutes at most.

Personally, I'd have felt it did matter to have to devote time and effort
to such things which should not really be needed if the OS/software didn't
make it necessary. But again I can appreciate it may be unavoidable in your
circumstances.

Indeed, as Dave will recognise from his own experience, his comments about
problems cooling the CPU are also ones I read with some wry amusement as
the CPUs I have mainly used do not require such cooling. ;-

Fortunately, I have been able to use other OSs/hardware that have not
required such behaviours. TBH one of the initial reasons I switched to
using a 'personal' computer rather than time-shared mainframes was early
experience with annoying losses of service, etc. Mind you, that was back in
ye olde days of machines like ICL1900s operated by a staff who kept
fiddling with the setup, disrupting the work of mere 'users'. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Change 'noise' to 'jcgl' if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Mind you, that was back in
ye olde days of machines like ICL1900s operated by a staff who kept
fiddling with the setup, disrupting the work of mere 'users'. ;-


Nothing changed there then;!....

--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:35:58 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Fortunately, I have been able to use other OSs/hardware that have not
required such behaviours. TBH one of the initial reasons I switched to
using a 'personal' computer rather than time-shared mainframes was early
experience with annoying losses of service, etc. Mind you, that was back in
ye olde days of machines like ICL1900s operated by a staff who kept
fiddling with the setup, disrupting the work of mere 'users'. ;-

Now hold on there a moment!

We only fiddled to make things better for the users. ;-)

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe)