question about scalers

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:26:33 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:21:16 GMT Wes Newell
wrote: | On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:52:39
+0000, Allen Watson wrote: |
| I've been looking at specifications for video scalers, but as far as
I | can tell, they provide only the standard presets-- fine for
upscaling | 480-line stuff to full-screen on a 720p or 1080p monitor.
I want custom | settings that would let me, for example, display
480-line video on the | middle 480 lines of a 720p monitor. Are there
scalers that can do that? |
| Set your TV for a 1:1 aspect ratio. That will display it as is. IOW's,
if | it's 640x480 and you have a 1366x768 display, it will occupy the
center | 640x480 pixels. It will be small, but it will be super
clear.:-)

Can you list a model that _actually_ does this? When I set them to 1:1
(not all can even do that) then the 640x480 input ends up as 1024x768,
filling the middle from top to bottom, with black sides (e.g. pillar
boxed). That _is_ a 1:1 aspect ratio ... just not a 1:1 pixel
conversion ratio. Converting 640x480 to 1024x768 is a 5:8 conversion
ratio.

Olevia 427V (Set Aspect ratio to 1:1 mode). Envision 37" (Set aspect ratio
to no scale). It's done different but the end results are the same.


| I'm assuming all HDTV's have this setting since my inexpensive sets
do.

Not the Vizio 32" my brother has. OTOH, the pillarbox picture looks
fine despite the 5:8 conversion.

Hmmm... My cousin has a Vizio 37" and I'm pretty sure it does. But it
isn't in the menu IIRC. Only on the remote.

What really sucks is when the station sends some 16:9 program in
letterbox over SD. 360 lines out of 480 would be used. Then that
640x360 picture gets scaled up to 1024x576 on the 1366x768 screen. I
refer to this using the made up term "pilletter boxed". The Vizio set
won't zoom it. It can stretch it wider, but then it isn't 1:1 aspect
anymore. It needs to have a 33.3% (3:4) zoom that will obey when
selected, even if it things something is going to be lost off the edge
of the screen.

Well, I just set both my HDTV's to normal aspect ratios. I watch
everything through my PC recorder system which will let me manipulate the
picture any way I see fit. Now I wouldn't want to make the image smaller,
but when I get a 16:9 picture in a 4:3 image I can just use 16:9 zoom to
take it right back to full screen. There's quite a few shows like this I
watch. I really haven't checked to see if the TV's will do this on their
own.... Well, the Envision zoom x2 mode does exactly that. Zoom modes are
1/4, 1/2, x1 (normal), x2, and x4 on it. Can't get to the Olevia to test
it now, but I'm pretty sure it will also do it.

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On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:56:42 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
| On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:26:33 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
|
| On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:21:16 GMT Wes Newell
| wrote: | On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:52:39
| +0000, Allen Watson wrote: |
| | I've been looking at specifications for video scalers, but as far as
| I | can tell, they provide only the standard presets-- fine for
| upscaling | 480-line stuff to full-screen on a 720p or 1080p monitor.
| I want custom | settings that would let me, for example, display
| 480-line video on the | middle 480 lines of a 720p monitor. Are there
| scalers that can do that? |
| | Set your TV for a 1:1 aspect ratio. That will display it as is. IOW's,
| if | it's 640x480 and you have a 1366x768 display, it will occupy the
| center | 640x480 pixels. It will be small, but it will be super
| clear.:-)
|
| Can you list a model that _actually_ does this? When I set them to 1:1
| (not all can even do that) then the 640x480 input ends up as 1024x768,
| filling the middle from top to bottom, with black sides (e.g. pillar
| boxed). That _is_ a 1:1 aspect ratio ... just not a 1:1 pixel
| conversion ratio. Converting 640x480 to 1024x768 is a 5:8 conversion
| ratio.
|
| Olevia 427V (Set Aspect ratio to 1:1 mode). Envision 37" (Set aspect ratio
| to no scale). It's done different but the end results are the same.
|
|
| | I'm assuming all HDTV's have this setting since my inexpensive sets
| do.
|
| Not the Vizio 32" my brother has. OTOH, the pillarbox picture looks
| fine despite the 5:8 conversion.
|
| Hmmm... My cousin has a Vizio 37" and I'm pretty sure it does. But it
| isn't in the menu IIRC. Only on the remote.

His has "zoom" on the remote. It has no effect. I don't know the reason
for this.


| What really sucks is when the station sends some 16:9 program in
| letterbox over SD. 360 lines out of 480 would be used. Then that
| 640x360 picture gets scaled up to 1024x576 on the 1366x768 screen. I
| refer to this using the made up term "pilletter boxed". The Vizio set
| won't zoom it. It can stretch it wider, but then it isn't 1:1 aspect
| anymore. It needs to have a 33.3% (3:4) zoom that will obey when
| selected, even if it things something is going to be lost off the edge
| of the screen.
|
| Well, I just set both my HDTV's to normal aspect ratios. I watch
| everything through my PC recorder system which will let me manipulate the
| picture any way I see fit. Now I wouldn't want to make the image smaller,
| but when I get a 16:9 picture in a 4:3 image I can just use 16:9 zoom to
| take it right back to full screen. There's quite a few shows like this I
| watch. I really haven't checked to see if the TV's will do this on their
| own.... Well, the Envision zoom x2 mode does exactly that. Zoom modes are
| 1/4, 1/2, x1 (normal), x2, and x4 on it. Can't get to the Olevia to test
| it now, but I'm pretty sure it will also do it.

My big concern now is finding a way to test this ability across a variety
of modes that it might be an issue with ... in stores before buying an HDTV
for myself. I'm probably not going to get Vizio. I'm probably going to
aim at the 42" size and 1080p. But I need to do things like test it with
a p24 source (in all sizes) and see if it is trying to do 3:2 pullup on it
or if it just updates the LCD grid exactly as fed (or some exact multiple
of that like p48 or p72).

--
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