Freeview audio quality compared to DAB.

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Robert Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I wondered what was better, Freeview audio, or DAB?
Cheers,

Rob.

On paper in almost all cases the bandwidth on DTT or Satellite is better
and equivalent to MP3..

Analog satellite was comparable (with Wenger / Panda ?)

Nicam or stereo FM also better.

For really dross quality try streamed over the internet!

Anyway, they all sound crap now due to excessive analogue compression,
including FM transmissions, so everything sounds like medium wave AM!

In article ,
DAB sounds worse than FM [email protected] wrote:
While hoping you're correct I wouldn't bank on it long term.


Okay then, Dave, explain to me what services the BBC is going to
transmit on the ~70% of the multiplex that will be empty once they have
switched their stations to using DAB+ and they've decided not to
improve the audio quality.

Who knows? They already broadcast a vast number of stations for tiny
minorities. Why not more? There are plenty not catered for. And who's to
say they will have control over any space vacated? Not you certainly - you
can only guess like the rest of us.

The one and only legitimate argument, which wasn't even close to being
realistic (but I can't be arsed to explain why) was that the BBC might
use the freed up space to broadcast their TV channels as mobile TV
channels. Unfortunately that argument now can't even be used, because
the EU telecoms commissioner has decided to force European countries to
use DVB-H for mobile TV, and BT Movio (the mobile TV service on the
Digital One multiplex) is closing next year - which will be linked to
the EU commissioner's decision to back DVB-H.

So, let's hear what new services you can think up to fill up the space,
or I'm afraid you're just full of hot air.

The confidence of the young. Sad to say, but you think *you've* won some
sort of victory. Only time will tell.

History has shown them to reduce standards to the point where the
majority are 'happy' - not maintain the best possible ones. In near
every field. It's a very different BBC these days from yesteryear.


I'm not intereted in history, I'm interested in cause and effect, so
provide the cause that leads to the effect, or you're just being
pessimistic for the sake of it.

It's pretty obvious you can't see beyond your own nose.

--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"R. Mark Clayton" writes:

For really dross quality try streamed over the internet!

Why does the quality have to be so bad? With broadband, there should be
no reason why they could not stream at 128kbps or even 256kbps. Even in
the early days, before 56k modems were common, Realplayer could
automatically select the best stream rate for your connection.

"Robert Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I wondered what was better, Freeview audio, or DAB?
Cheers,

Rob.

Freeview quality is much better, higher bitrates. Unfortunately there is no
control over stations using obscene amounts of compression and reduced
bandwidth audio. It's an attempt to sound the loudest like VHF FM stations
do. DAB sounds like listening to a stereo through a telephone. A lot of
stations are in mono and tinny.

Warning - rants approaching! If you look at the archives for this NG
you'll see what I mean.


Presumably you're referring to me?

Sensitive! And no I wasn't.

The reality is that you don't like what I write, so you try to label it as
a rant.

Actually I'm neither pro or anti DAB. I don't have a DAB radio because I
listen to Radio 4 mainly and FM reception on ye olde Roberts (so old it only
goes up to 103MHz) is fine where I live. I felt I gave a reasonably
balanced answer indicating that DAB was often felt to be over-compressed to
the detriment of sound quality - isn't that your position?

The reality is that I rarely if ever rant these days - that was ages ago.

Umm, the pernickey in me wonders what you e-mail was if not a rant but I see
this thread is already well under way ;-).

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Robert Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I wondered what was better, Freeview audio, or DAB?
Cheers,

Rob.

On paper in almost all cases the bandwidth on DTT or Satellite is better
and equivalent to MP3..

Analog satellite was comparable (with Wenger / Panda ?)

Nicam or stereo FM also better.

For really dross quality try streamed over the internet!

Anyway, they all sound crap now due to excessive analogue compression,
including FM transmissions, so everything sounds like medium wave AM!


Please explain.

In article ,
R. Mark Clayton wrote:

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Robert Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I wondered what was better, Freeview audio, or DAB?
Cheers,

Rob.

On paper in almost all cases the bandwidth on DTT or Satellite is
better and equivalent to MP3..

Analog satellite was comparable (with Wenger / Panda ?)

Nicam or stereo FM also better.

For really dross quality try streamed over the internet!

Anyway, they all sound crap now due to excessive analogue compression,
including FM transmissions, so everything sounds like medium wave AM!


Please explain.

I assume he means 4.5kHz audio bandwidth, heterodyne whistles at night and
lots of electrical interference ;-)

That's medium wave AM

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
DAB sounds worse than FM [email protected] wrote:
While hoping you're correct I wouldn't bank on it long term.


Okay then, Dave, explain to me what services the BBC is going to
transmit on the ~70% of the multiplex that will be empty once they
have switched their stations to using DAB+ and they've decided not to
improve the audio quality.

Who knows? They already broadcast a vast number of stations for tiny
minorities. Why not more?


They have no plans for more stations, and the government probably wouldn't
allow them to launch any more because the commercial sector would throw
their toys out of their pram.


There are plenty not catered for. And who's
to say they will have control over any space vacated? Not you
certainly - you can only guess like the rest of us.


It is *their* multiplex, so why wouldn't they have control over it?


The one and only legitimate argument, which wasn't even close to
being realistic (but I can't be arsed to explain why) was that the
BBC might use the freed up space to broadcast their TV channels as
mobile TV channels. Unfortunately that argument now can't even be
used, because the EU telecoms commissioner has decided to force
European countries to use DVB-H for mobile TV, and BT Movio (the
mobile TV service on the Digital One multiplex) is closing next year
- which will be linked to the EU commissioner's decision to back
DVB-H.

So, let's hear what new services you can think up to fill up the
space, or I'm afraid you're just full of hot air.

The confidence of the young. Sad to say, but you think *you've* won
some sort of victory. Only time will tell.


Oh, I have won, there's absolutely no question about that.


History has shown them to reduce standards to the point where the
majority are 'happy' - not maintain the best possible ones. In near
every field. It's a very different BBC these days from yesteryear.


I'm not intereted in history, I'm interested in cause and effect, so
provide the cause that leads to the effect, or you're just being
pessimistic for the sake of it.

It's pretty obvious you can't see beyond your own nose.


No, I have a good view of the overall picture, and the simple fact is that
you can't think of any use for the freed up space that is plausible, so
you're using your usual tactic of just having a go at me instead.

I do think they'll launch new services of some kind, but they'll be things
like downloads, such as podcasts, but I'm absolutely certain that the first
thing they will do is to sort the audio quality out, and any new services
will then fit into whatever space is left after that.

The BBC has actually said on numerous occasions that it would like to
improve the audio quality on DAB, and I do actually believe them about this.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Paul D.Smith wrote:
Warning - rants approaching! If you look at the archives for this
NG you'll see what I mean.


Presumably you're referring to me?

Sensitive! And no I wasn't.


Who were you referring to then?


The reality is that you don't like what I write, so you try to label
it as a rant.

Actually I'm neither pro or anti DAB. I don't have a DAB radio
because I listen to Radio 4 mainly and FM reception on ye olde
Roberts (so old it only goes up to 103MHz) is fine where I live. I
felt I gave a reasonably balanced answer indicating that DAB was
often felt to be over-compressed to the detriment of sound quality -
isn't that your position?


Absolutely, although the bit about rants was superfluous.


The reality is that I rarely if ever rant these days - that was ages
ago.

Umm, the pernickey in me wonders what you e-mail was if not a rant
but I see this thread is already well under way ;-).


If you think that was a rant you need to look up the meaning of the word. It
was basically a post intended to be condescending to some random individual
who was having a go at me.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...

"Robert Wilson" wrote in message
...
Hi,
I wondered what was better, Freeview audio, or DAB?
Cheers,

Rob.

On paper in almost all cases the bandwidth on DTT or Satellite is
better and equivalent to MP3..

Analog satellite was comparable (with Wenger / Panda ?)

Nicam or stereo FM also better.

For really dross quality try streamed over the internet!

Anyway, they all sound crap now due to excessive analogue
compression, including FM transmissions, so everything sounds like
medium wave AM!

Please explain.


By "analogue compression", he presumably means dynamic range compression,
AKA audio processing, as opposed to data or digital compression, for example
AAC, MP2, MP3 etc.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info