OT - All DAB receivers to be obsolete - DAB is dead

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:51:05 +0000, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

You can be just as terse and belligerent as I.
"... as ME".

No. "...as I" is correct.

Or possibly "...as I am".

That is entirely correct, but is not the point at issue. The "am" changes
the whole structure of the sentence.

"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote:


So when you said:

"And the audio quality on normal DAB is extremely hunky dory."

were you lying, or just talking crap?


Neither! But there's nothing wrong with the audio quality
of Radio 4 DAB! Ok, it's not sharp and crisp, but it doesn't
have any hiss, crack, pops, and it has enough dynamic
range to hear the programmes.


But I tend to listen to radio 4,
which often has a wide range of volume where the quieter parts
get lost in the hiss of radio 4 FM (unless I switch to mono)
which doesn't happen on 128kbit stereo DAB.


And what's your view of R4 being transmitted in mono in the evenings?


It's ridiculous. As is BBC7 (when it's playing stereo source material!) being
in mono. If I listened to BBC parliament then I might not mind so much.

But the low bandwidths used for DAB are not the fault of the DAB
system! It's down to the marketing people at the BBC. They'll
find a way to technically bugger any future system anyway.
Wonder how many stages of mpeg compression and decompression
programs go through in production?

In any case, in the case of radio 4, (and BBC7) it's usually (well,
except the 75% of the time when they're talking ********) the
content that's important, not the quality. You might find that
sad, but I'm afraid it's true.

dom.

wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote:


So when you said:

"And the audio quality on normal DAB is extremely hunky dory."

were you lying, or just talking crap?


Neither! But there's nothing wrong with the audio quality
of Radio 4 DAB! Ok, it's not sharp and crisp, but it doesn't
have any hiss, crack, pops, and it has enough dynamic
range to hear the programmes.


I've seen lots and lots of people mention that FM suffers from cracks and
pops. When did you last hear a crack or a pop on FM?

Sounds to me you've just swallowed the DAB marketing nonsense hook, line and
sinker, me old Charlie.


But I tend to listen to radio 4,
which often has a wide range of volume where the quieter parts
get lost in the hiss of radio 4 FM (unless I switch to mono)
which doesn't happen on 128kbit stereo DAB.


And what's your view of R4 being transmitted in mono in the evenings?


It's ridiculous. As is BBC7 (when it's playing stereo source
material!) being in mono. If I listened to BBC parliament then I
might not mind so much.

But the low bandwidths used for DAB are not the fault of the DAB
system! It's down to the marketing people at the BBC. They'll
find a way to technically bugger any future system anyway.


That's letting the engineers off the hook, which is wrong, because the
technology existed to upgrade the DAB system in the 1990s - they could have
chosen to use MP3 instead of MP2 from day one. Then AAC came along and was
ignored totally. The Reed-Solomon coding that is now being adopted is used
as the error correction coding on CDs, so that was around long before DAB
was first designed. Ignoring MPEG Surround, because that's just a
nice-to-have add-on, the only thing that DAB is now adopting that didn't
exist in the 1990s is the '+' part of AAC+, and DVB adopted AAC+ back in
December 2004, so what took the DAB people so long?

Blaming this all on the marketing people is just letting the ostrich
engineers off the hook, I'm afraid.


Wonder how many stages of mpeg compression and decompression
programs go through in production?

In any case, in the case of radio 4, (and BBC7) it's usually (well,
except the 75% of the time when they're talking ********) the
content that's important, not the quality. You might find that
sad, but I'm afraid it's true.


Oh, I've never, never, never heard that one before. You seem to be coming
out with all the old chestnuts as if they're new and never been said before.
Truth is that it's the same old chestnuts every time, and I've heard them
all before many times.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
DAB has adopted the AAC+ audio codec and stronger error correction coding:

http://www.worlddab.org/upload/uploa...e_November.pdf

Ignore the spin in the article about the UK not switching to using AAC+ - we
will switch to using the AAC+ codec, and all existing DAB receivers will
eventually be made obsolete.

Receivers that support the new DAB standard will come on sale next year, and
in about 2 - 3 years' time we will see radio stations launch in the UK using
AAC+. I have no proof that stations will launch using AAC+ in 2 - 3 years'
time, but there's expected to be 4.6m DAB receivers in the UK by the end of
this year, and according to the DRDB's sales forecasts, there will be 13m by
the end of 2008 and 20m by the end of 2009, so the large majority of
receivers will support the new DAB standard in 2 - 3 years' time, and Ofcom
will allow the broadcasters to launch new stations using AAC+.

The only countries where the old DAB system has sold in any quantity have
been the UK Denmark and Norway (DAB sales have been low there, but they're
too stubborn to change), and all other European countries are expected to
adopt the new DAB standard.

The old DAB system is now basically dead, and not a second too soon, AFAIAC.

Forgive me for laughing at the DAB apologists who have continually argued
that the low audio quality on DAB is oh so hunky dory, but:
hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahha. Oh, and BTW, you're going to need a new
radio.



I think it will be a phased in change over a number of years, in the
same way the change from 405 to 625 line TV was undertaken.

IMO the new national multiplex should go live with the new system
followed by a planned switch over say taking four or five years.
Regardless of the spin (in either direction) will there be either an
instant switch over or no switch over.

The fact that a new national jazz station is launching (in mono) rules out
the BBC being able to launch one - despite what you'd like to think.


Has this been confirmed or is it a guess?

I have seen nothing published station it will be in mono, but I suspect
it will be!

Mark Carver wrote:

Luke Bosman wrote:

Well done. You've failed to answer my question.

This is Usenet, the home of pedantry.

Fair point.

Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:23:20 +0000, Luke Bosman
wrote:

You can be just as terse and belligerent as I.

"... as ME".

No. "...as I" is correct.

No, it isn't. You wouldn't say "you can be as terse as he" or "you can be
as terse as we", you would you "him" and "us", therefore you use "me", not
"I".

Actually, I would say "as we are" or "as he is". Don't tell me what I
would or would not say, because you and I have never met.

Ta.

Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

Edster wrote:

(Luke Bosman) wrote in
message


Try Kerrang.

No thanks. I'm happy with my own choice of stations. There are bad
stations on analogue too.

How many mono stations are there on FM?

Why should I care?

cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

no_Spam" "(no_Spam)andywilkins wrote:
The fact that a new national jazz station is launching (in mono)
rules out the BBC being able to launch one - despite what you'd like
to think.

Has this been confirmed or is it a guess?

I have seen nothing published station it will be in mono, but I
suspect it will be!


I calculated how much space there was left on the Digital One multiplex
after they'd just added a 5th mobile TV channel:

http://www.wohnort.demon.co.uk/DAB/uknat.html

and there's now 860 CU (capacity units) out of 864 taken up (DAB multiplexes
always have a capacity of 864 CU, but the max kbps that can be fit in
varies, so you have to calculate the number of CU).

This means that there's virtually NO space (about 8 kbps spare) for the new
jazz station unless they reduce the bit rates of existing stations, such as
reducing another station to mono just to allow the jazz station to launch in
mono.

There's basically no way it will launch in stereo now.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 13:51:05 +0000, Michael Rozdoba
wrote:

You can be just as terse and belligerent as I.
"... as ME".

No. "...as I" is correct.

Or possibly "...as I am".

That is entirely correct, but is not the point at issue. The "am" changes
the whole structure of the sentence.

Go on.

By the way, what are your qualifications in this field?

Cheers,
Luke


--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush