SKY+

At 08:35:32 on 11/09/2006, Jomtien delighted uk.media.tv.sky by
announcing:

Zero Tolerance wrote:

Not digitally.

A DVD recorder is digital. An offboard PVR like TiVo is digital.

They make digital recordings of an analogue source. This introduces
quality loss.

Acceptable quality loss. Hardly noticeable, in fact, with decent
equipment.

DTT recorders, Sky+ and non-Sky sat recorders make bitstream
recordings of the original digital source.

Only Sky+ charges for this, and the charge is unjustified

It may be (and it's your opinion) but...

as the
entire functionality is contained within the box at the time of
purchase.

.... that is not a valid argument as to why.

At 08:35:32 on 11/09/2006, Jomtien delighted uk.media.tv.sky by
announcing:

Zero Tolerance wrote:

You aren't excluded from this, unless your phone line is too long
in which case it is hardly anyone's fault. You have a wide choice
of ISPs at hugely varying prices from free to quite expensive.
You can buy any PC you want and use it with any ISP.

The same does not apply to the Sky+.

The same does not apply because you are comparing generic with
specific. "You can buy orange juice anywhere, the same does not
apply to Tesco Premium Ginger Beer."

This is precisely the problem. Sky+ is a monopoly product that no one
else makes, because Sky prevent them from doing so.

Sky prevent anyone else broadcasting over satellite? Will these
newsflashes never end?

Ditto, Sky+ is available only from Sky, but other recording
solutions are freely available.

Only non-similar ones.

The technology that powers the Sky+ is available to all and is used in
many other devices. But those who, through no fault of their own,
cannot receive other platforms must pay Sky to use a Sky+, even if
they don't want to record Sky channels with it.

Or they can pay nobody to use many other recording devices.

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Actually HDMI allows you to make your own bitstream recordings for
playback on your own equipment.

Are you quite sure about that?

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

No it isn't because DTT-HD exists

Not in the UK. There is only a limited test going on.

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Alex wrote:

You still
would not be able to record anything you want digitally over HDMI if
the content provider enforced HDCP.

Yes, you would. You do not understand how this works.

Alex seems to understand it just fine. Do you even know what HDCP is
and what it is supposed to do?

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Zero Tolerance wrote:
If the products are sold on that basis and if, on balance of the
features and benefits offered by the product, I consider it to be a
good deal and I choose to pay it, then yes,

You're just being silly.

No, I'm just disagreeing with you.

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Only Sky+ charges for this, and the charge is unjustified as the
entire functionality is contained within the box at the time of
purchase.

In your opinion.

And like I said, what if the software to enable user recording was NOT
in the box as sold, and was only downloaded when you paid for the Sky+
service? Would that be different?

(I expect it wouldn't, because you would continue to moan either way.)

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

It has been explained to you many times that satellite is the only
source that many people can receive.

And nothing prevents recording from satellite.

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Zero Tolerance wrote:
The same does not apply because you are comparing generic with
specific. "You can buy orange juice anywhere, the same does not apply
to Tesco Premium Ginger Beer."

This is precisely the problem. Sky+ is a monopoly product that no one
else makes, because Sky prevent them from doing so.

Tesco Premium Ginger Beer is a monopoly product, because nobody else
makes it, because Tesco prevent them from doing so.

Ditto, Sky+ is available only from Sky, but other recording solutions
are freely available.

Only non-similar ones.

Similar enough to achieve the same result.

The technology that powers the Sky+ is available to all and is used in
many other devices. But those who, through no fault of their own,
cannot receive other platforms must pay Sky to use a Sky+, even if
they don't want to record Sky channels with it.

This is appalling.

It is appalling that you can't get past the fact that people may quite
easily record from Sky channels in other ways and that everyone has a
choice as to whether to take the Sky+ service or not. I repeat, who
are you to deny them that choice?

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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:35:32 +0200, Jomtien wrote:

Granted. But decent equipment gets you a perfectly acceptable
recording over scart

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does. 99.99% of people would be unable to tell the difference.

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