BBC/ITV FreeSat - will this be any different from FreeSatFromSky?

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
...
"Jomtien" wrote in message
...

People say things about Tivo's unreliability too (especially with
regard to late schedule changes or poor guide data), of course.

Indeed. The Tivo is very reliable. The EPG data (which is always at
least 12 hours or more out of date) is not so reliable.

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.


Incorrect, or to put it another way, BBC and ITV often dont start things
at the time shown in the EPG (for which *they* send the data to Sky). Its
not at all uncommon for the time to be out by 2 or 3 minutes, BBC2 IME is
especially bad at this.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

My sky plus often misses recordings for no good reason

Zero Tolerance wrote:

What has this got to do with it? Sky could have made their EPG to DVB
standard. They deliberately chose not to in order to make life
difficult for the FTA channels.

They could have restricted their EPG to DVB standard, certainly, but
maybe they thought that it was more important to provide decent
features to their paying customers than to adopt a less flexible
'standard'. It quite obviously has nothing to do with the FTA channels
at all, who could easily broadcast "standard" advance EPG data at any
time, yet clearly can't be bothered to do so.

It's not a question of restricting the EPG, it's a question of making
it compatible. It could be both advanced and compatible, but it isn't.
And the reason that it isn't is quite simply in order to prevent
non-Sky boxes from accessing it. And that is simply for
anti-competitive reasons. There just aren't two ways of looking at
this.


And that's a pattern you see all over Europe - tune in to most of the
channels on Astra 1 or Hotbird and you don't see anything other than
what's on Now and Next - sometimes not even that!

Not from what I see.


Never mind other channels, they could start by broadcasting full EPG
data for their own services. Yet they choose not to. What does that
tell you?

It tells me that they are probably developing the means to do so.


The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.

Well, you clearly have no way to tell whether the data being broadcast
is correct or not, only whether it 'looks' correct. And as we've seen,
the BBC is well able to broadcast incorrect EPG data (as it does with
PDC) that entirely screws up people's recordings. So let's not put all
of the blame on the workman's tools, shall we?

If the data looks correct then it almost certainly is. Either way, Sky
are totally responsible for everything that happens in the Sky EPG and
also to the Sky+. They designed and specified the spec of both, they
run the EPG and control the development of the Sky+ firmware, they
charge all the broadcasters a large fortune to be in the EPG and, in
the case of the Sky+, they charge users a small fortune every month to
use it.

They should get it right.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Tumbleweed wrote:

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.


Incorrect, or to put it another way, BBC and ITV often dont start things at
the time shown in the EPG (for which *they* send the data to Sky). Its not
at all uncommon for the time to be out by 2 or 3 minutes, BBC2 IME is
especially bad at this.

The data is timed to the second. Some programmes may be few minutes
out but this shouldn't prevent the recording from taking place, albeit
a little truncated.

The Sky EPG is quite capable of being 100% right all the time and if
it isn't then there is only one party responsible: the party that
controls the EPG. And that is Sky.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Tumbleweed wrote:

Not at all. You are inventing things.

What I have said many times is that the Tivo is of acceptable visual
quality. Most decent new DVD/HDD recorders offer better quality (which
isn't surprising given the age of the UK Tivo). Direct recording
offers better quality still.

One has only to google to see what you have said about Tivo quality.

Indeed. Anyone doing so will find confirmation of what I wrote in my
reply to you.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Jomtien wrote:
The data is timed to the second. Some programmes may be few minutes
out but this shouldn't prevent the recording from taking place,
albeit a little truncated.

*****

"Albeit a little truncated"?! So missing the end of a programme
because the BBC has decided to lie to its viewers about the
transmission times is OK?

When will the BBC and its apologists realise that deliberately
incorrect EPG data is unacceptable?

André Coutanche

"Gary" wrote in message
...


My sky plus often misses recordings for no good reason

I'm not denying that, I'm merely pointing out that the EPG isnt reliable,
and in most cases, thats because the sources of EPG data dont get it right.
Yesterday they overran a programme by 15 minutes because of the olympics, no
update to EPG (this was BBC) and programme half missed. Nothing to do with
Sky, BBC's fault for not updating the EPG .

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

Not at all. You are inventing things.

What I have said many times is that the Tivo is of acceptable visual
quality. Most decent new DVD/HDD recorders offer better quality (which
isn't surprising given the age of the UK Tivo). Direct recording
offers better quality still.

One has only to google to see what you have said about Tivo quality.

Indeed. Anyone doing so will find confirmation of what I wrote in my
reply to you.


As with this from here?
http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/2033354.aspx

Jomtien wrote:


The only real differences between a Sky+ and a combination of Sky
autoview EPG + other recorder are the drop in picture quality (as with
a Tivo) and the fact that the Sky+ can record two channels at once.

-- Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.


Incorrect, or to put it another way, BBC and ITV often dont start things
at
the time shown in the EPG (for which *they* send the data to Sky). Its not
at all uncommon for the time to be out by 2 or 3 minutes, BBC2 IME is
especially bad at this.

The data is timed to the second. Some programmes may be few minutes
out but this shouldn't prevent the recording from taking place, albeit
a little truncated.

The Sky EPG is quite capable of being 100% right all the time and if
it isn't then there is only one party responsible: the party that
controls the EPG. And that is Sky.

You dont understand how it works, which really surprises me. EPG data for
non-Sky channels is sent to Sky by the owners of those channels, be it ITV,
BBC or LIving TV, etc, and usually the playout time is controlled by them as
well (Sky do playouts for some, but certainly not BBC and ITV). Playout time
and EPG data for those channels are nothing to do with Sky **at all**.

Its also ridiculous to talk about 'truncation' as if it was irrelevant when
of course missing the last 2 or 3 minutes is often as bad as missing the
whole programme!

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Tumbleweed wrote:

Not at all. You are inventing things.

What I have said many times is that the Tivo is of acceptable visual
quality. Most decent new DVD/HDD recorders offer better quality (which
isn't surprising given the age of the UK Tivo). Direct recording
offers better quality still.

One has only to google to see what you have said about Tivo quality.

Indeed. Anyone doing so will find confirmation of what I wrote in my
reply to you.


As with this from here?
http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/2033354.aspx

Jomtien wrote:


The only real differences between a Sky+ and a combination of Sky
autoview EPG + other recorder are the drop in picture quality (as with
a Tivo) and the fact that the Sky+ can record two channels at once.

Thank you for confirming what I said. You will have noted that both
statements say the same thing.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

André Coutanche wrote:

The data is timed to the second. Some programmes may be few minutes
out but this shouldn't prevent the recording from taking place,
albeit a little truncated.

*****

"Albeit a little truncated"?! So missing the end of a programme
because the BBC has decided to lie to its viewers about the
transmission times is OK?

When will the BBC and its apologists realise that deliberately
incorrect EPG data is unacceptable?

The Sky EPG can be updated by the second. It should never be wrong.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)