BBC/ITV FreeSat - will this be any different from FreeSatFromSky?

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:36:55 +0100, Jomtien wrote:

I suspect that they are working on this.

They've had years to start broadcasting the information in an
off-the-shelf format, as standard and used all over Europe. Yet they
haven't. What is there to work on?

Look at the BBC's international channels on Astra and hotbird and
there's almost no EPG data for them either. Maybe they just can't be
bothered.

Why isn't the Sky EPG standard in the first place? There shouldn't
need to be two.

Clearly if even our nation's major public service broadcaster (funded,
may I remind you, by several billion pounds of licence fee payer's
money every year) can't do the job, then someone else has to step up
and provide the service.

Personally I have a Tivo which I know is much more reliable and
requires no monthly fee.

People say things about Tivo's unreliability too (especially with
regard to late schedule changes or poor guide data), of course.

In article ,
Jomtien wrote:

Why is it the British custom to deride anybody who is successful at creating
a profitable enterprise?

Because there seems to be a strong correlation between making lots of
money and being an evil *******.

Is it? Are Alan Sugar, Richard Branson or "Call Me Stelios" often
derided?

Yes, of course. Sugar for producing crap products, Branson for screwing
up the trains, and Stelios for trying to steal the word "easy".

-- Richard

Zero Tolerance wrote:

Why isn't the Sky EPG standard in the first place? There shouldn't
need to be two.

Clearly if even our nation's major public service broadcaster (funded,
may I remind you, by several billion pounds of licence fee payer's
money every year) can't do the job, then someone else has to step up
and provide the service.

What has this got to do with it? Sky could have made their EPG to DVB
standard. They deliberately chose not to in order to make life
difficult for the FTA channels.

The BBC don't make the Sky EPG themselves: they supply the data to Sky
who process it and broadcast it. For the BBC to broadcast a DVB
standard EPG they would have to actually process and programme the
data themselves, and collect it from other broadcasters and process
and broadcast that too. Clearly they have been doubtful as to why they
(ie the licence payer) should pay to do this. With the agreement with
ITV in place one can expect this to become a reality, financed by all
Freesat parties concerned.


Personally I have a Tivo which I know is much more reliable and
requires no monthly fee.

People say things about Tivo's unreliability too (especially with
regard to late schedule changes or poor guide data), of course.

Indeed. The Tivo is very reliable. The EPG data (which is always at
least 12 hours or more out of date) is not so reliable.

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Tumbleweed wrote:

Personally I have a Tivo which I know is much more reliable and
requires no monthly fee.


.........but according to you really poor quality .

Not at all. You are inventing things.

What I have said many times is that the Tivo is of acceptable visual
quality. Most decent new DVD/HDD recorders offer better quality (which
isn't surprising given the age of the UK Tivo). Direct recording
offers better quality still.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

Richard Tobin wrote:

Is it? Are Alan Sugar, Richard Branson or "Call Me Stelios" often
derided?

Yes, of course. Sugar for producing crap products, Branson for screwing
up the trains, and Stelios for trying to steal the word "easy".

I don't think that the people themselves are often derided, if ever.
On the contrary they are widely liked. The companies on occasion are
derided but rarely the founders.

In this respect Murdoch is quite different. Many of his companies (but
not Sky, I think) are well-liked. He though is widely detested.

--
Digibox problem? : A reboot solves 90% of these.
The Sky Digital FAQ: http://tinyurl.com/8vef5
UK TV overseas: http://tinyurl.com/6p73
BBC reception questions? ; http://www.astra2d.com/
Fed up with on-screen logos? : http://logofreetv.org/
----
Only the truth as I see it.
No monies return'd. ;-)

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:28:54 +0100, Jomtien wrote:

What has this got to do with it? Sky could have made their EPG to DVB
standard. They deliberately chose not to in order to make life
difficult for the FTA channels.

They could have restricted their EPG to DVB standard, certainly, but
maybe they thought that it was more important to provide decent
features to their paying customers than to adopt a less flexible
'standard'. It quite obviously has nothing to do with the FTA channels
at all, who could easily broadcast "standard" advance EPG data at any
time, yet clearly can't be bothered to do so.

And that's a pattern you see all over Europe - tune in to most of the
channels on Astra 1 or Hotbird and you don't see anything other than
what's on Now and Next - sometimes not even that! No wonder that
platform providers like Sky have to go their own way.

The BBC don't make the Sky EPG themselves: they supply the data to Sky
who process it and broadcast it. For the BBC to broadcast a DVB
standard EPG they would have to actually process and programme the
data themselves, and collect it from other broadcasters and process
and broadcast that too.

Never mind other channels, they could start by broadcasting full EPG
data for their own services. Yet they choose not to. What does that
tell you?

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.

Well, you clearly have no way to tell whether the data being broadcast
is correct or not, only whether it 'looks' correct. And as we've seen,
the BBC is well able to broadcast incorrect EPG data (as it does with
PDC) that entirely screws up people's recordings. So let's not put all
of the blame on the workman's tools, shall we?

"Jomtien" wrote in message
...

People say things about Tivo's unreliability too (especially with
regard to late schedule changes or poor guide data), of course.

Indeed. The Tivo is very reliable. The EPG data (which is always at
least 12 hours or more out of date) is not so reliable.

The Sky+ is different. The data is normally totally accurate and timed
to the second. The machine however just doesn't record some things,
for no obvious reason, in spite of the data being correct.


Incorrect, or to put it another way, BBC and ITV often dont start things at
the time shown in the EPG (for which *they* send the data to Sky). Its not
at all uncommon for the time to be out by 2 or 3 minutes, BBC2 IME is
especially bad at this.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Jomtien" wrote in message
news
Tumbleweed wrote:

Personally I have a Tivo which I know is much more reliable and
requires no monthly fee.


.........but according to you really poor quality .

Not at all. You are inventing things.

What I have said many times is that the Tivo is of acceptable visual
quality. Most decent new DVD/HDD recorders offer better quality (which
isn't surprising given the age of the UK Tivo). Direct recording
offers better quality still.


One has only to google to see what you have said about Tivo quality.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Mark Carver"
MJ Ray wrote:
I've been told unofficially that the distribution doesn't support
broadcasting the standard EPG because Sky asked for it to be left
out. Personally, I doubt it and I hope it will be proved wrong by
BBC and ITV starting full 7-day EPG broadcasts.

Distribution ? To and from where ? Please elaborate

I don't know what point in the system they meant, but presumably
some point between it leaving the BBC and reaching Astra 2D.
I can't find any information from the BBC in how they currently
transmit via satellite, so it's hard to see either way.

(Zero Tolerance) [...]
And that's a pattern you see all over Europe - tune in to most of the
channels on Astra 1 or Hotbird and you don't see anything other than
what's on Now and Next - sometimes not even that! No wonder that
platform providers like Sky have to go their own way.

Most of the major broadcasters on Astra at 19E seem to broadcast
either a multi-day EPG or decent teletext listings. Germans are
very good at EPG. BBC and ITV have neither on DVB-s today,
despite broadcasting long EPGs on DVB-t (Freeview) already.

Sky don't have to ignore the standards, but choose to.

--
MJR/slef
Sat FAQ: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/comp/astefaq.txt