De-Lurk Plus Why Bother with DTT?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:42:04 -0000, "Pyriform"
wrote:

The history of communication satellites is however extremely brief. It
would be unfortunate if it coincided with an unusually benign period of
solar activity!

That does not seem to be the case. Solar activity is quite well known
over much of human history.

The "perfect solar storm" of 1859 was powerful enough to disrupt the
cutting edge communications technology of the day - the electric
telegraph. Power surges in telegraph wires caused widespread fires in
both Europe and the United States.

Not unlike the power distribution network in Canada in much more
recent times. They had blackouts over a wide area and where the solar
storm used to make the light bulbs flicker.

They lost a couple of satellites that time.

I wonder what effect an event of this magnitude (or worse) would have on
today's communications infrastructure?

Since communication satellites are designed to handle solar storms
then I would hope not much.

You may recall that only a few years ago the Sun unleashed the largest
CME that they had ever seen, by several orders of magnitude. That was
not pointing in our direction fortunately, but NASA's space probes
that were in that region seemed to live through it.

I guess this is a case of wait and see. They are well designed, but
the Sun likes to provide surprises.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:06:39 +0000, Angus Rae
wrote:

Cardman wrote:
So 28.2 east has a high elevation from the UK at least. All about 27
degrees I guess.

You're not in Scotland then. 18 degrees elevation to Astra 2 for the
middle of the Highlands (and it's only 26 degrees on the South Coast,
according to the Astra dish installation assistant).

Yes, I did a quick estimate for my location from memory.

The Highlands also have glaciated valleys, which are approximately U
shaped. This means that there's either a lot of flat land at the bottom
which people have colonised over the years or a loch, which generally
people have populated the edges tof. There are also very steep sides,
large mountains, and so on. This means that a great many people cannot
see any satellites in geosync at all - the arc is completely blocked -
or if they can see the arc it's a limited slot of it they can see. I
know of one area where Astra 1 is visible but Astra 2 is blocked
completely (the shutdown of analogue Sky services on Astra 1 was not met
by screams of joy there, I can tell you) and an area where the reverse
is true (they were happy though).

I would fine it hard to believe that many places would have the entire
geostationary orbit over the equator blocked. And it is true to say
that there is much more than Sky Digital to see up there.

My line of sight (LOS) is from 75 east to 58 west. That is quite a lot
larger than I expected from my location.

In any case I would never live in a house that did not have a good
LOS.

There are also a great many areas in England and Wales where there are
similar problems.

Many, many hills _are_ that bad.

Fine, I believe you. It is just that in my 7 years as a satellite
reception equipment supplier that I have never heard anyone mention
"hill" as the cause of their reception problems.

Hills I do know cause terrestrial reception problems though.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:30:47 +0000, Alan White
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:45:57 GMT, Cardman wrote:

Trees are a known problem. Nothing that a chainsaw cannot cure. In
fact one digital terrestrial installer mentioned that my reception was
crap due to trees in the roads behind my house.

I think neighbours would not take it kindly if you attacked their
trees with a chain saw. At our previous house, we had to fell three
large pine trees before we could even see the sky let alone receive a
satellite signal. As it was, our neighbours were very upset at their
loss of privacy even though the trees were on our land.

I did have one large fir tree starting to cause me problems over at
about 10 west. So you could say that I was happy when one of the
neighbours cut down this tree and turned the stumps into a tree house
for their children.

Yes, removing trees can be a problem, where at least they have to be
your trees to begin with. No ringing your neighbour's trees in the
darkness either.

In your case it seems to me that your neighbours were out of order for
you removing your own trees for a valid reason. As if they wanted
privacy then they can easily erect a suitable system on their side of
the fence. Provided it does not block your dish of course.

Reception can improve in winter months due to lack of leaves.

In this context, that's a silly comment.

That is what can happen when you install a dish in winter. As by
spring the reception is lost and where it only returns in late autumn.

I think the person who told me about his leaves problem was not too
concerned, what with his various dishes. He even had cable I recall.

One of my friends, and customers, once mentioned all his tree problems
with his multiple dishes. Finding gaps between the trees, installing
on high poles, and even putting one dish on a neighbour's house, with
their approval of course.

Despite the strangled grammar I think the meaning is clear: spend a
lot.

That can be the difference between getting Sky Digital and not getting
Sky Digital. More then a few people would accept this one off expense.

I recall that he had a professional installer go all over his building
trying to find the best gap between the trees. Long poles is the other
method to lift the dish above the tree-line.

You are correct that he was a reception nut. He certainly went a long
way to get the best multi-satellite and multi-system reception at his
location.

I just thought that it would make a good example to highlight that
trees are not always fatal to dish installation plans.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

Cardman wrote:
trees and the like.
Trees are a known problem. Nothing that a chainsaw cannot cure.

Many mature trees are the subject of a Tree Preservation Order,
and any damage to a TPO tree can attract a £20,000 penalty.

The penalty was set at that level to discourage dodgy 'developers'.
Anyway, I rather like trees.

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:15:01 -0000, "Jolly Roger"
wrote:

Cardman wrote:
trees and the like.
Trees are a known problem. Nothing that a chainsaw cannot cure.

Many mature trees are the subject of a Tree Preservation Order,
and any damage to a TPO tree can attract a £20,000 penalty.

Yes, but I am not sure how people know if it is a TPO tree or not,
when most people cannot even identify the type. Oh, this also reminds
me. Don't cut down oak trees, when the council don't like that.

Anyway, from what I have seen then even TPO trees are not that much of
a problem, when the council will authorise you to cut it down with the
right excuse.

Like my now deceased grandfather got authorisation to cut down an oak
tree in the forest, when quite correctly it was in the way of him
moving the tractor up and down the road.

My mother has also had a protected tree in her garden removed. This
was following that great storm incident. Nothing wrong with the tree
mind you, when it is just that my mother is very tabloid sensitive. As
during that time there were many stories of falling trees, where she
now suspects the one in her garden will sudden jump out of the
darkness and go "boo".

Not to mention that ever since my mother moved in to her house then
she has slowly worked through cutting down every bush, shrub and
anything else growing in her garden that is taller than she is. So
this large tree has always its days numbered, where my mother took up
this "great storm" opportunity to have the council approve its
removal.

I guess that a huge tree in a small garden is not best idea, but then
that tree was there before the house was. That tree sure is not there
any more when my mother got very anti-tree on it. Once the council
have given their approval (they never come and take a look...), then
so did my uncle let it taste chain saw.

The penalty was set at that level to discourage dodgy 'developers'.

Hopefully it is somewhat lower for the plain stupid then.

Anyway, I rather like trees.

You should love a forest then.

In fact I spent much of my childhood holidays in forests and orchards,
when my grandfather was a woodsman. I now wonder if this explains why
I now only see two types of plants. The first type you can eat, where
the second type I term as "weeds".

Well my grandfather used to cut down trees by the hundreds, with
turning them into pailings and logs. Then on the other side a young
boy in an orchard can find many delights. Like I recall one very tasty
plumb tree. Row after row of red and black cherry trees. Not to forget
multiple types of apples.

Now I think this makes my family sound rather screwed.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

I just thought that it would make a good example to highlight that
trees are not always fatal to dish installation plans.


Over in France at the in-laws they can't get some sats simply because
they live in a hilly , not mountainous, bit of France. They had to put
up a tower with the dish on to "see" over a tree lined ridge. Can be
done, and a bit of odd Gallic co-operation there too with the
neighbours!;.

And for that matter their on 47.28 North latitude which does help with
the elevation angle. If that was in Scotland a bit of a no go
methinks!......

--
Tony Sayer

Anyway, I rather like trees.

You should love a forest then.

In fact I spent much of my childhood holidays in forests and orchards,
when my grandfather was a woodsman. I now wonder if this explains why
I now only see two types of plants. The first type you can eat, where
the second type I term as "weeds".

Well my grandfather used to cut down trees by the hundreds, with
turning them into pailings and logs. Then on the other side a young
boy in an orchard can find many delights. Like I recall one very tasty
plumb tree. Row after row of red and black cherry trees. Not to forget
multiple types of apples.

Now I think this makes my family sound rather screwed.

Sounds quite normal to me whatever normal is;?....

--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In fact I spent much of my childhood holidays in forests and orchards,
when my grandfather was a woodsman.

Sounds quite normal to me whatever normal is;?....

I'm afraid it isn't normal these days for children to have the freedom to
roam in the countryside.

Less seriously, did grandad deal with wolves by chopping their heads off?

Bill

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:26:03 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In fact I spent much of my childhood holidays in forests and orchards,
when my grandfather was a woodsman.

Sounds quite normal to me whatever normal is;?....

I'm afraid it isn't normal these days for children to have the freedom to
roam in the countryside.

I guess not. The volume of dirty pedophiles seems to have grown into
major swarms due to the feeding of tabloid stories. At this rate I
would wonder if my childhood was somehow deprived by the fact that not
one adult I spoke to in my childhood every tried to sexually molest
me. My post puberty self could well have welcomed the attention of a
large breasted woman as well.

I think society has to accept that just about all adults either lack a
sexual desire for children, or those that do generally can control
themselves.

Less seriously, did grandad deal with wolves by chopping their heads off?

Considering that there have been no wolves in the English countryside
for many hundreds of years, then I would say that this had quite
remote odds. So his greatest animal feat seems to have been to train a
robin to take food out of his hand.

There were really no larger animals to be seen in the region. Just
birds, rabbits and maybe a few hares.

My grandfather spent most of his time making pailing and stakes. Both
of these were used in wooden fences. The stakes form the main posts,
where the pailings form the fence by being tied together using wire.

Not exactly vampire slaying stakes either, when you can just imagine
Buffy using one of these 6 or 8 foot monsters. More the type to burn
witches on I guess.

England has not done that for hundreds of years either.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.org
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:11:10 +0000, Richard Cole wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:28:13 +0000, steve wrote:

So do the different boxes, on/off up/down vol+/-. You like Sky because it
is simple and you cannot deal with learning a new remote every few years,
for the rest that can managed that feat, we'd like the choice of options
thanks.
How do you deal with other things in life, not all buses are the same,
trains, other peoples houses - do you pee in peoples cloakrooms perhaps
because they are not in the same place as yours?

No Sky is going as soon as I get around to phoning up and canceling.

Check my previous postings (not in this NG 'cos this is my first here),
I'm a (very) experienced IT professional, so change doesn't bother me, but
your spurious comments really ****ed me off.

You ought to stop being so bloody sensitive then especially replies to
other people.

And being an IT professional means nothing any idiot calls them self one
that mans a support desk, you cannot understand the difference between
digital audio out and analogue audio out or capturing off air MPEG and
capturing decoded analogue MPEG to re-compress.


Bye bye Steve plonk

Indeed, snip your embarrassing points, then la la la not listening.

See ya.