The Norman Baker TV Standby Mode Challenge

In article , wrote:

A kWh is 1000 joules isn't it, or is it 3600000 joules, I suspect it's
the second actually. 1 joule = 1 watt for a second. Thus 1kwh is
1000 * 3600 joules. So, essentially, kwh are joules with a different
name. 1kwh = 3.6Mj

They're different units for the same thing, so both perfectly valid.
However, a Joule is a Watt-second, which is rather a small quantity of
energy when considering household electricity bills, so the kilowatt-hour
is the one in common use for this purpose. We *could* buy our petrol in
millilitres, but generally we don't because the numbers would be silly.

Rod.

Chris Howells wrote:
wrote:

1 joule = 1 watt for a second.

1 Watt is one joule per second, e.g. 1W = 1J/S.

Not 1J = 1W/S as you suggest.

Sorry, yes, a Joule is a Watt Second (that is Watts x Seconds), my
sums were right though.

--
Chris Green

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...

Wouldn't a tuner need to be in standby anyway for the timer to work?

Of course. I'm amazed that shops in this country are *still* selling VHS,
DVD and PVR recorders without a DTT receiver built in. It's madness really,
because when the analogue signal gets switched off, there's going to be a
huge number of people for whom setting matching timers on the recorder and
on the STB will be too complicated.

The long-term answer to all this is to have a recorder with twin DTT tuners
built in. Then it will be the only thing which needs to be left on standby.
As long as that standby mode is well designed, power use should be minimal.

All the more reason to get an "Intelligent Mains Extension Lead" from
Maplins.
The catalogue number is L22BK, and it costs 29.99GBP. The one showing on
their
web site is slightly different from the ones I have (which only cost
24.99), as
it now includes a telephone and modem splitter, though I've also seen them
in
DIY shops so you may be able to get the cheaper ones too.

fair enough, but as you say, the STB and recorder would have to be powered
separately - unless the "inteligent" gizmo can detect the difference between
standby and full-on modes - then a timer recording on the recorder would
power-up the STB. This is all very nice fur us technically minded people,
but far too complicated for many to want to bother with. They are likely to
ask the question "how long can I leave all my stuff on standby for £30 ?"

Adrian

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:39:21 -0000, Pyriform wrote:

Standby modes on consumer electronics are under attack again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4620350.stm

My problem with this is that I think a lot of the criticism is
justified, but I get really annoyed by exaggerated claims which are
endlessly lapped up by lazy journalists. Take this quote, for example,
from Norman Baker, the Liberal Democrat's environment spokesman,
advocating a "polluter pays" approach to the standby problem:

"In the end, there has to be costs in the form of manufacturers paying
something to recognize the damage they are causing. Some of these
standby modes for televisions use two-thirds of the electricity that it
would if it were on. I think some people think that standby is a tiny
red dot that has no impact at all."

He'll be telling us next that a TV on standby uses *more* power than it
does when it's switched on. Actually that's a claim I've already seen
made, and of course for some values of 'on time' versus 'standby time',
it can actually be true! The question of instantaneous power versus
overall power consumption just gets thrown into the mix without any
comment or qualification.

Anyhow, my challenge to you all is to find a TV with a standby mode as
woefully inefficient as the one which so exercises Mr Baker's vast
political intellect. Name and shame, that's what I say!

Where can I buy a cheap mains socket adapter to measure the power ?

In article [email protected],
Adrian B wrote:
Of course. I'm amazed that shops in this country are *still* selling VHS,
DVD and PVR recorders without a DTT receiver built in. It's madness really,
because when the analogue signal gets switched off, there's going to be a
huge number of people for whom setting matching timers on the recorder and
on the STB will be too complicated.

And so the shops will sell them another box. Are you still amazed?

NB Everyone will blame the government and praise the manufacturers and shops
for coping with the demand. ;-(

--
John Cartmell [email protected] followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Roderick Stewart wrote:

In article , Pyriform wrote:
He'll be telling us next that a TV on standby uses *more* power than it
does when it's switched on. Actually that's a claim I've already seen
made, and of course for some values of 'on time' versus 'standby time',
it can actually be true!

No it can't. Journalists, even some technical journalists, appear to be a
bit confused about the difference between *power* and *energy*, and of
course people who read them are not helped.

If you look up "energy" in the dictionary, you'll find that the first
definition often refers to fuels like coal, gas, and oil. There's often
a difference between the common-usage of a term and its technical-usage,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that either are "wrong".

--
Dave Farrance

In article [email protected], Adrian B wrote:
fair enough, but as you say, the STB and recorder would have to be powered
separately - unless the "inteligent" gizmo can detect the difference between
standby and full-on modes - then a timer recording on the recorder would
power-up the STB. This is all very nice fur us technically minded people,
but far too complicated for many to want to bother with.

Agreed, but these items would need to be left in standby anyway. The
"intelligent" mains splitter can remove from the equation such things as the TV
set, the auto SCART switch box, the hi-fi tuner, the CD player, the tape player
and probably your VHS machine too because you won't still be using that for
recordings will you?

By using a normal mains splitter as well as the "intelligent" one, you arrange
switched and unswitched mains supplies to your hi-fi/TV equipment and plug as
appropriate. In my case the "master" unit that controls the switched supply is
the audio amplifier because that is needed whether I'm listening or viewing. It
doesn't save everything, but because the auxiliary mains outlets are switched
by physical relay contacts (I can hear them), it minimises the number of things
that are connected to the mains when the system is switched off, which is
cheaper and safer.

Rod.

In article , Dave Farrance wrote:
He'll be telling us next that a TV on standby uses *more* power than it
does when it's switched on. Actually that's a claim I've already seen
made, and of course for some values of 'on time' versus 'standby time',
it can actually be true!

No it can't. Journalists, even some technical journalists, appear to be a
bit confused about the difference between *power* and *energy*, and of
course people who read them are not helped.

If you look up "energy" in the dictionary, you'll find that the first
definition often refers to fuels like coal, gas, and oil. There's often
a difference between the common-usage of a term and its technical-usage,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that either are "wrong".

It's wrong if it has a technical meaning and you use it wrongly about a piece
of technical equipment, because in that situation the technical meaning would
be the expected one.

That's if there really are two meanings of course. How many meanings can
there be for "energy" and "power"? The former is a measure of the *amount* of
work done, and the latter is a measure of the *rate* at which it is done, the
two units being related in the same way as distance and speed. To use these
terms with any other meanings would only confuse, which is why the correct
meanings are the correct ones.

Rod.

In article , Doz wrote:
Where can I buy a cheap mains socket adapter to measure the power ?

Maplins.

Rod.

"John Cartmell" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected],

And so the shops will sell them another box. Are you still amazed?

Not amazed that the shops are taking advantage of the situation. Just amazed
that the government is stupid enough to let it happen.

Adrian