DAB Performance of different makes?

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , DAB sounds
worse than FM wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


For all I know Classic FM would sound the same if the value was "0"
as it does when the value is in the range 2-4. Or it might sound
noticably different.


Do you know what the "signal error" goes up to?

No. Not bothered to experiment much with the specific 'adaptor' as I
don't expect much from it in any case, and simply use it for general
listening whilst doing things like posting to usenet. :-)

In my experience, there's no difference in audio quality from when
there's maximum signal quality down to when the bubbling mud actually
starts.

But is that based on varying the input RF level in a controlled
manner?


No.


And a perception/judgement isn't the type of measurement I am
interested in at this point.


There you go again, denying what you want to do. You can't admit that
you were wrong originally -- a very bad trait, IMO. You're flitting
between comparing reception quality and audio quality as it suits you.
Get a grip.


Can't be sure. I'm just using this as an example as I tend not to
listen to Classic FM anyway. But it illuminates the sort of problems
I'm curious about.

The makers do not provide the necessary info to interpret the
numbers. Nor do reviews seem to give any info on this - for the
various RXs I've seen. Hence if someone has poor reception
conditions, how can they judge before they buy what RXs might - for
them - function worse than others? No data to make comparisions and
reach decisions.


You seem to be flitting between talking about reception problems and
audio quality problems.

I'm simply accepting that one *may* lead to the other in at least some
cases.


EXACTLY. And that is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, and that
is EXACTLY what you have been denying ALL ALONG.

This is what you said originally that I took offence to:

" If it is the case that different DAB RXs give differing outputs
when fed with the same DAB signal, then it may have some impact on
the assessment of DAB that people keep making/assuming."

especially "then it may have some impact on the assessment of DAB that
people keep making/assuming"

You've even admitted that you wanted to know whether "signal error 3"
might degrade teh audio quality compared to "signal error 0". You've
admitted it, and you're STILL denying that that is one of the things
that you want to test because you think "it may have some impact on the
assessment of DAB that people keep making/assuming."



--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Please sign the petition asking the BBC to provide better audio quality
on its radio stations on DAB, Freeview, satellite and cable:
http://tinyurl.com/a68e4

In article , DAB sounds worse than FM
wrote:

[snip]

There you go again, denying what you want to do. You can't admit that
you were wrong originally -- a very bad trait, IMO. You're flitting
between comparing reception quality and audio quality as it suits you.
Get a grip.


[snip]

sigh Having read the above, and some of the other postings by Steve
since in this thread, I think I will have to conclude that it would
be a waste of effort for me to try again to explain this to him.

However, if anyone other than Steve hasn't understood clearly what
I have been trying to explain, please say, and I will have another
go. My regrets are that an attempt to find info on the topics I
was asking about have been submerged by Steve's reactions.

Steve: you are clearly able to use whatever 'tone' you like in your
postings.

By the same token, others can decide it isn't worth talking to you
if you respond as exampled above.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message
...
etillet wrote:
snip

I think you might do your own sanity a favour (not to mention
everyone
else's) if you took, say, a 1 month break from usenet...


Be quiet.



Please take you own advice, or are you still going to behave like a
rant-boy?...

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
There are far worse things in the real
world to get concerned about. Relax. This isn't worth getting
yourself upset about.


I'll relax when I decide to relax, and that'll be after you've admitted
that I've not mis-understood what you want to do you patronising git.


Stevie's gone past irritating for me into the realms of the completely
ludicrous! I can't for the life of me see how he can so comprehensively
and consistently miss the entire point! Neither can I see how Jim could
put it more clearly - it's like somehow his words get translated into
something different between his news server and Stevie's! Perhaps
Steve's got ROT13 turned on :-)


--
Nobby

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
etillet wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:

Actually, I did read your posts on Google Groups this morning to see
your reaction to being blocked,

So you hide someone's posts from your view and then you're so
inquisitive to read them you circumvent your own killfile?

I think you might do your own sanity a favour (not to mention everyone
else's) if you took, say, a 1 month break from usenet...


Be quiet.

ROTFLMAO!!! Now do as King Stevie says!

--
Nobby

"Nobody Here" wrote in message
...
snip

Stevie's gone past irritating for me into the realms of the
completely
ludicrous! I can't for the life of me see how he can so
comprehensively
and consistently miss the entire point!


He doesn't want to understand...

Nobody Here wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
There are far worse things in the real
world to get concerned about. Relax. This isn't worth getting
yourself upset about.


I'll relax when I decide to relax, and that'll be after you've admitted
that I've not mis-understood what you want to do you patronising git.


Stevie's gone past irritating for me into the realms of the completely
ludicrous! I can't for the life of me see how he can so comprehensively
and consistently miss the entire point! Neither can I see how Jim could
put it more clearly - it's like somehow his words get translated into
something different between his news server and Stevie's! Perhaps
Steve's got ROT13 turned on :-)


I *knew* that would get one out of you, Dave "the rave" Plowman and
;;;;Jerry;;;; going. Absolutely knew it.

It's quite simple, and it bemuses me how supposedly intelligent people
cannot see the error in their ways; Jim wants to test the performance
of different DAB receivers to see which perform better than others and,
importantly, he wants to know BOTH which perform best under poor signal
strength conditions AND whether differences in BER affect the output
audio quality. Now, it's the latter that I've been going on about since
the start, and that's the thing that Jim has been denying, and yet if
you read his posts he actually admits time and again that he does want
to test this.

But thanks for your ultra-predictable response.

Don't worry, I'm not going to make a habit of looking to see if you,
Dave the Rave and Jerry with his pacemaker have responded in future. So
don't get your hopes up for an argument, there's a good Ozzie. How's it
going without The Ashes, BTW?

Steve said it himself the other day - he's narcissistic. I should
thank him for pointing that out. Here's a web treatise on narcissism,
and it does match well with his posts:


A narcissistic individual has a basic sense of inferiority although if
you listen to him talk you would never realize it. A narcissist presents
a false self to the world. Under his inferiority is a preoccupation with
fantasies of outstanding achievement, ideal love, and an aimless
orientation toward superficial interests. The narcissist uses others to
aid him in any tasks he undertakes and will frequently take credit for
work which others have done. The narcissistic individual may be more
successful at his chosen field of work than some of the other
personality disorders. This is because his work can be advantageous to
the narcissist especially if it provides narcissistic supply.

Lying is an integral part of the narcissist's behavior and all their
self-reports are unreliable. His cognition is impaired to the extent
that he frequently misinterprets other's speech, actions, and thoughts.
He may believe that someone respects or loves him although this is a
fantasy which exists only in the mind of the narcissist.

Narcissists will over inflate their own accomplishments, are boastful,
and pretentious. They frequently will compare themselves to people of
great accomplishments and are surprised when others do not agree with
them. In fact, it is not unusal for the narcissist to compare himself
with God.

Although he may attempt to impress others with knowledge and
decisiveness, a narcissistic person's information base is often limited
to trivia. His ideas are seldom original. He chooses to quote whoever he
feels at the time is an authority, however, the narcissist's quotations
may not be accurate as to what the chosen authority meant. The
narcissist makes his own interpretations to best suit his whim. People
other than the narcissist may wonder why he picked that individual as an
authority since no true validation may exist the individual is an
authority.

He also feels that people of high status can only understand him and he
often assigns special, gifted, or unique qualities to the people with
whom he associates. He will insist that he has the best doctor, lawyer,
etc., available, and will assign non-factual accomplishments to that
individual to prove the validity of his claims.

A narcissistic individual displays beliefs and behaviors that indicate a
sense of 'specialness' or 'uniqueness.' He expects favorable treatment
from others and wants automatic compliance with his requests. For
instance he does not feel he should be made to wait in line and expects
to be the center of attention. He is mystified when he does not get what
he wants. If an individual disappoints him then he will devalue that
person.

A narcissist demonstrates a lack of empathy towards others and this
causes him to treat others like objects. He does not see others as human
beings, but sees them as objects that have no feelings or needs. His
sense of entitlement leads to his exploitation of others and this
results in little guilt or remorse.

A narcissistic injury occurs when someone defeats or criticizes the
narcissistic individual. The narcissist may not show it outwardly, but
he is haunted by criticisms and defeats. Therefore, the narcissist does
have emotions. The narcissist, however, does not relate to his emotions
as others do because he represses his emotions so deeply that they play
no conscious role in his behavior. But, these repressed emotions
unconsciously play a large part in determining his behavior. When a
narcissistic injury occurs, the narcissist begins to feel empty,
degraded, and humiliated and he is capable of retaliating with
narcissistic rage. His reactions constitute disdain or defiant attacks.

Steve, that's embarrassing! Despite the narcissism, I'd had the
impression that you were stronger willed than that. "I've killfiled
them. Now I've really killfiled them. Now I've really really..."

Mugwump wrote:
Steve, that's embarrassing! Despite the narcissism, I'd had the
impression that you were stronger willed than that.


I'd say I am *very* strong-willed. Just read some of my posts on this
thread for example. ;-)

I think looking at people's posts despite killfiling them is a different
issue to willpower. I'll let others debate what it is.


"I've killfiled
them. Now I've really killfiled them. Now I've really really..."


All 3 of them *are* killfiled, but my killfile doesn't apply to Google
Groups. :-)


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Please sign the petition asking the BBC to provide better audio quality
on its radio stations on DAB, Freeview, satellite and cable:
http://tinyurl.com/a68e4