Damn you, Survivor!!

Ryan Lago wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:29:08 -0400, Ritz wrote:


Ryan Lago wrote:

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:21:56 -0400, Jeff Rife wrote:



Ryan Lago ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:


All of them seem to output HDV, and I know of at least two fairly
inexpensive programs that can handle that format (Adobe Premiere Pro and
Pinnacle Studio Plus 10). You can get Pinnacle for less than $100.

Regarding HDV: Have fun trying to cut accurately!

How is it different from DV or HD MPEG-2?


DV and MPEG-2 is different.
DV is MJPEG. Full frame.

What? DV is NOT mjpeg and DV and HDV are easily edited. HDV requires a
bit more horsepower on the editing system since you're pushing a bit
more data, but this isn't rocket science.

DV and MJPEG are recording every frame as a full frame.
Dont you get it?

HDV does not. HDV is a MPEG2 (lossy) method!



What exactly are you complaining about? Yup, DV video is
compressed...so is HDV.

That doesn't seem to stop a lot of news teams from using cams like the
JVC DV-GY500.

*shrug*

Ryan Lago wrote:
Had a big laugh. Thanx.
We're talking about pro equipment my friend.



That's OK. I had a big laugh when I considered the subject material.....

) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| MPEG2 means you CANNOT edit the footage frame by frame.

Sure you can.

Although you are correct here, it's merely the "blind squirrel" syndrome.

Just because the number of stored bits per frame varies
does not prevent frame-accurate editing. It just requires more work on
the part of the software. One possible approach is to pre-index the
HDV file to find where all the frame positions actually are, and store
that information as an index file.

Finding the frame isn't the issue. As I keep saying:

will post on any subject, even if he has no clue about it.
Please don't use anything he wrote to help you decide anything, as he is
most likely wrong. He has been corrected numerous times by a wide
variety of posters, yet continues to post nonsense.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Peanuts/TenPin.gif

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:15:07 -0400 Jeff Rife wrote:
| ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| | MPEG2 means you CANNOT edit the footage frame by frame.
|
| Sure you can.
|
| Although you are correct here, it's merely the "blind squirrel" syndrome.

I see you can't miss any opportunity to make a personal attack, even
when YOU know I am right.


| Just because the number of stored bits per frame varies
| does not prevent frame-accurate editing. It just requires more work on
| the part of the software. One possible approach is to pre-index the
| HDV file to find where all the frame positions actually are, and store
| that information as an index file.
|
| Finding the frame isn't the issue. As I keep saying:

Actually, there aren't any real issues at all. But software
originally designed for DV could readily assume each frame begins
120000 or 144000 bytes beyond the previous frame, and to get to any
frame number, multiply 120000 or 144000 by the frame number and do a
file position seek to that byte number. Such software would have to
abandon that assumption for HDV (or MPEG).

If you think there are other issues, and you decide to start discussing
things based on the facts, merit, logic, and/or analysis, and end the
personal attacks to cover up your inability or preference to not
discuss things properly, then you should feel free to state what you
think these other issues are.


| will post on any subject, even if he has no clue about it.
| Please don't use anything he wrote to help you decide anything, as he is
| most likely wrong. He has been corrected numerous times by a wide
| variety of posters, yet continues to post nonsense.

No corrections were ever posted. Only personal attacks were made.

Jeff Rife will find any and all excuses to avoid a
technical discussion based on the facts, merit, logic, and/or analysis
of the topic at hand, preferring instead to twist or selectively
interpret what people say in order to find a means to make personal
attacks, or incite flame wars. If you catch him doing this, you can
help others by posting a followup that points out the errors in his
postings. There might be hope in salvaging what could otherwise be
a smart person.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

wrote:
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:15:07 -0400 Jeff Rife wrote:
| ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| | MPEG2 means you CANNOT edit the footage frame by frame.
|
| Sure you can.
|
| Although you are correct here, it's merely the "blind squirrel" syndrome.

I see you can't miss any opportunity to make a personal attack, even
when YOU know I am right.


Oh please. You're simply wrong. HDV is easily edited if you've got the
correct tool for the job. Don't believe me? Go to your nearest Apple
store and fire up the latest version of Final Cut Pro and edit away. So
while I find your other points interesting in a very tangental way, they
aren't germain to the original claim you made...which was that HDV
cameras don't produce editable content. That is clearly false.

Best regards,

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:53:42 -0400 Ritz wrote:
| wrote:
| On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:15:07 -0400 Jeff Rife wrote:
| | ) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| | | MPEG2 means you CANNOT edit the footage frame by frame.
| |
| | Sure you can.
| |
| | Although you are correct here, it's merely the "blind squirrel" syndrome.
|
| I see you can't miss any opportunity to make a personal attack, even
| when YOU know I am right.
|
|
| Oh please. You're simply wrong. HDV is easily edited if you've got the
| correct tool for the job. Don't believe me? Go to your nearest Apple
| store and fire up the latest version of Final Cut Pro and edit away. So
| while I find your other points interesting in a very tangental way, they
| aren't germain to the original claim you made...which was that HDV
| cameras don't produce editable content. That is clearly false.

Either:

1. You didn't read the whole thread carefully

-or-

2. You intended the followup be to Ryan Lago's post, but clicked in the
wrong place.

If you take a careful look, you can see that both Jeff and I refuted
the statement by Ryan Lago that HDV content
is non-editable. So either read the thread, or be careful where you
hit/click for a followup.

Any content that can be captured into a computer can be edited if the
right software is there (or is developed).

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

wrote:

Either:

1. You didn't read the whole thread carefully

-or-

2. You intended the followup be to Ryan Lago's post, but clicked in the
wrong place.

If you take a careful look, you can see that both Jeff and I refuted
the statement by Ryan Lago that HDV content
is non-editable. So either read the thread, or be careful where you
hit/click for a followup.

Any content that can be captured into a computer can be edited if the
right software is there (or is developed).


Ah...If I mistakenly attributed that comment to the wrong person, I am
sorry.

Cheers,

) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
| Just because the number of stored bits per frame varies
| does not prevent frame-accurate editing. It just requires more work on
| the part of the software. One possible approach is to pre-index the
| HDV file to find where all the frame positions actually are, and store
| that information as an index file.
|
| Finding the frame isn't the issue. As I keep saying:

Actually, there aren't any real issues at all.

Then, why did you post blather about finding the frame being the only part
you see as harder than on DV? Especially when there really are much more
difficult issues to solve (although obviously they have been solved by many
software developers).

If you think there are other issues,

I know there are other issues, as there *are* editors that can't handle
MPEG-2 at frame level and generate clean edits. But, it's just not my job to
educate you anymore. It's up to get off you own lazy ass and do it yourself.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverThe...taAndRotel.gif

Larry Bud wrote:
First ep of Survivor was on last night, AGAIN not recorded in HD.
It's a PERFECT venue for HD, out in the jungle/ocean and a couple of
hot babes.

There needs to be some crime taking place on the show. Then they'll send in
the "COPS" (music "Bad Boys" starts playing) and THEN it will be in HD.

;-)

) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
If you take a careful look, you can see that both Jeff and I refuted
the statement by Ryan Lago that HDV content
is non-editable. So either read the thread, or be careful where you
hit/click for a followup.

He did read the thread. Nowhere did you provide any proof that HDV was
actually editable at the frame level. I, however, did (by specifying the
editors that have that capability).

You merely rambled about some stuff, and got lucky on your 50/50 guess.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/BabyBlues/OnTheRemote.gif