How am I going to be able to use my VHS recorders when digital is forced on us?

"Roger R" wrote in message
...
I don't think its all that untypical. All that I know have two set top
boxes
for this reason, or to watch one and record the other. Those who bought
pace
twins probably did so for the same reason too.

I don't think that I am untypical of VCR users either.

Until recently, I did all my recording on two VCRs. I hardly ever watch
pre-recorded tapes / DVDs and used VCRs almost exclusively for
time-shifting. The second VCR was more often used to allow me to watch the
first half of a film whilst the second half was being recorded. I now have a
PVR which covers that scenareo much better.

Adrian

"Adrian" MyFirstNameATTyahooDOTTCOMM wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...
At present I have two video recorders which I use for recording two
different programmes at the same time, especialy when I'm out at the
times
they are being broadcast.

I undersatnd that set top boxes are available for use with conventional
TVs,
but how will that help me record differet programmes at the same time?

In 3 years when analogue switch-off is supposed to start, there will still
be millions of perfectly servicable VCRs out there along with libraries of
tapes which people don't want to lose. People will therefore have to buy a
new recorder (hard-disk or DVD or both) for new recordings and keep their
VCR as a playback-only device.

Of course, the problem with using a digibox with a VCR or other recorder
is
that you can't use the recorder's timer to set the channel to record. The
solutions to that are clumsy at best and probably beyond a large
proportion
of the buying public who want ease-of-use, not a basket full of remotes
and
a nest of SCART cables which only their teenage son understands.

I recently bought a PVR / DVD recorder which I got for a good price at
Richer Sounds. The down-side of this unit is that it's analogue only so in
a
few short years, I will have problems with it. Why did I buy a non-DVB
recorder? Because I wanted a hard-disk/DVD recorder combination and the
options are very limited at the moment. It amazes me that the vast
majority
of models available on the high-street are still without digital tuners.

If people can knock-out a STB for £30 with power supply etc, it must be
possible to incorporate one into a recorder for about £15 above the cost
of
the analogue tuner - or even include both for about £20 - so why are we
not
seeing digital recorders becoming the norm yet?

Here's a prediction:
When the switch-off starts to happen, despite all the pre-warning, vast
numbers of people will be caught without suitable equipment (particularly
the elderly). Digiboxes will be in short supply and priced to take
advantage
of the situation. Digital-enabled recorders will be even rarer Aerial
installers will be swamped with people who have left it until the last
minute to go digital, only to find that their aerial is inadequate and
their
loop-aerial on their bedroom portable is a waste of space. There will be
an
outcry, newspapers will get involved and switch-off will be delayed for
another year or more.

Adrian

You may well be right. I bought my first DVD player about 5 years ago (from
Woolies). Together with a PVR, digital video camera and a PC, I have
disposed of all my legacy VHS tapes (which, let's face it, are crap by
comparison) and now have a far superior (in terms of technical quality)
library of DVD's. It's probably a bit early to say, but I think that they
will stand the test of time much better than the VHS tapes I had from the
early 80's did. It never ceases to amaze me though, that people will allow
themselves to be stymied by advances in technology. So what if JVC are still
making videos. We are in a transitional period that WILL see VHS becoming
totally redundant, in the same way that audio cassette and vinyl became. If
you don't want to get caught out by it, do something about it.

Aidan

"André Coutanche" wrote in message
...
I'm still wondering why some semi-intelligent manufacturer hasn't
produced a twin-tuner DTT PVR with built-in DVD recorder. (Perhaps the
answer is lurking in the question, somewhere near the word
'intelligent' ... ).

or even a single tuner DTT PVR + DVD-R. I think Sony do one at a scary
price. All the mainstream manufacturers (Panasonic, Pioneer etc) are still
knocking out analogue only PVRs (see my post elsewhere in this thread).

Adrian

"Aidan Brick" wrote in message
. uk...
So what if JVC are still
making videos. We are in a transitional period that WILL see VHS becoming
totally redundant, in the same way that audio cassette and vinyl became.
If
you don't want to get caught out by it, do something about it.

I'm sure anyone who frequents this newsgroup will be more than capable of
making the right decisions and will be prepared. I'm equally sure that there
will be a huge number who won't. The elderly are, I would have thought, the
category most likely to be using old TVs and inadequate aerials, but and not
have multi-channel any kind when the analogue signals get switched off.

Adrian

In article , Roger R wrote:
Stuff you want to keep, you burn onto a DVD. If your DVD recorder has
a hard disc as well as a burner, you can edit-out commercials, etc
first, before you burn. If it only has a burner, you can do the
editing on a computer, if you want to.

Either way, you will end up with a much more compact storage system,
probably of higher quality, and probably more durable.

Hmm.. 'probably'.. IMO tape is still the most flexible, reliable, dependable
and inexpensive storage medium for video. AIUI tape is the only medium used
professionally in TV studios.

Oh no it isn't! Even the professionals are moving to the use of disk drives to
record, edit and play out broadcast programmes. Long term storage may be on
tapes, but not VHS. Tape still has the advantage in terms of storage capacity
per unit volume, but for "flexibility", it cannot compete with a medium that can
offer virtually instant random access, doesn't need rewinding, and can record
and play back the same material at the same time. Once you've used one of these,
your VHS machine will start to gather dust, just like mine.

Rod.

In article , wrote:
I have looked at this and it seems ideal except for one thing. At
present with a VCR I can tape a programme and then pass the tape on to
a friend, or I can tape educational programmes and take the tape to
work. How is it possible to do this with the Topfield? Or is there
another solution?

Yes, burn a DVD. You can get a DVD recorder combined with the hard drive
recorder, or a separate unit, as you please. If you buy your DVD blanks
in hundreds on a spindle and a separate pack of plastic envelopes, each
recording will cost less than a pound. It's not even worth the bother of
formatting the reusable ones, and hoping your friends will return the
disks without scratches - just burn a copy. Everybody has a DVD player
these days. Most new laptop computers include a DVD drive, but how many
laptop computers can play VHS tapes?

Rod.

In article , Owain wrote:
I have looked at this and it seems ideal except for one thing. At
present with a VCR I can tape a programme and then pass the tape on to
a friend, ...

If Microsoft, Sky, record/film industry have their way, everything will
be Digital Rights Managed so you won't be able to do that.

But they won't, so you will.

We can debate till the cows come home the morality of passing on to a
friend a copy of something which has been broadcast and therefore "public
domain", but the reality is that everybody does this and it will be
impossible to stop.

Rod.

In article [email protected], Adrian wrote:
I recently bought a PVR / DVD recorder which I got for a good price at
Richer Sounds. The down-side of this unit is that it's analogue only so in a
few short years, I will have problems with it.

You've probably got the samer as me, but I have no problems recording from an
external Freeview box, and neither need you. Nor will any such problem occur if
they do switch off the analogue broadcasts. They could switch them off tomorrow
and it wouldn't make any difference to me.

Rod.

"André Coutanche" wrote in message
...
"Roger R" wrote

Hmm.. 'probably'.. IMO tape is still the most flexible, reliable,
dependable and inexpensive storage medium for video. AIUI tape is
the only medium used professionally in TV studios.

*****

Others can say whether tape is the *only* medium used in studios - but
not much of it is VHS cassettes!

For 'some' satellite TV stations VHS appears to be their primary source material
;-) I was tempted to specify a studio tape type like Beta SP, but knew I'd get
it wrong so left it open.

Once DVD recorders are ubiquitous (and they've made more progress than
one might have expected a few years ago when they were strictly
early-adopter kit), I think you could apply all those adjectives to
DVDs.

I don't have a TV console type DVD recorder as yet so this is a bit tounge in
cheek, but IMO they are not as flexible as tape because the tape can be
interrupted, wound back a bit and then 'lined up' for the subsequent recording.
e.g. if the start of an advert break is missed, the tape can be rewound to the
last bit of programme and then lined up ready for a restart when the programme
material restarts producing an apparently seamless playback. Can a DVD
recorder do that?

The normal tape length is 3 hrs, whereas DVD's are limited at present to 1 hr
without reducing quality, and many programmes -the sort I'm interested in
anyway- are often over 1 hr. VHS tape is down to under 99p per 3 hr tape. Ok
the quality is not comparible to DVD but is that too important for many
programmes. s-video tape if it is.

At present I am confident about the recording when its on tape, but don't feel
the same about the DVD's I've burned, espcially when some top brand CD back-ups
made only a couple of years ago turned out to be unreadable.

I'm uncertain how DVD recorders deal with stream or tape drop outs. The tape
just records the drop out and picks up again, can DVD recorders cope? At
present I record to DVD using the Ulead Video Studio computer application.
This application is *very* sensitive to glitches in the recorded stream, causing
the whole application to crash. For safety my normal practice is to record the
programme material to s-video tape and then get a clean computer capture later.

I'm still wondering why some semi-intelligent manufacturer hasn't
produced a twin-tuner DTT PVR with built-in DVD recorder. (Perhaps the
answer is lurking in the question, somewhere near the word
'intelligent' ... ).

You have it there!

Roger

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article [email protected], Adrian wrote:

You've probably got the samer as me, but I have no problems recording from
an
external Freeview box, and neither need you. Nor will any such problem
occur if
they do switch off the analogue broadcasts. They could switch them off
tomorrow
and it wouldn't make any difference to me.

I bought the Pioneer model they were selling a couple of months back and it
is excellent. I don't regret buying it for a minute.I can of course record
from a freeview box, but it's timer recordings which become clumsy. There
seem to be two ways of doing this with the Pioneer + Freeview box
combination...

1) Set timer on PVR to record from SCART - AND - set timer on Freeview
box to come out of standby and select correct channel.

2) Use the timer on the Freeview box and set the PVR to wake up and
record when a signal is detected on the SCART.

Neither is ideal and would confuse the hell out of many Luddites and
technophobes I know, for whom VideoPlus is their limit.

Adrian