Further correspondence from Channel 4 CEO

Ant wrote:
On 06 Apr 2004 01:52:28 GMT, lid (Bill
Godfrey) wrote:

These logos on his website do not go over the top of actual content,
nor do they hang around once you scroll down the page.

Really? I just read one of the forum pages mentioned in a link a few
messages back, and not one but TWO large popup windows appeared over
the content I was attempting to read, one scrolling no less than 58
news stories, and another one telling me about other posts in the
forum.

Evil things popup windows. See what I miss by using a popup blocker?!

We want answers Pollux.

"Ant" wrote in message
...

You miss the point. They are not downloading anything. YOU are
downloading the code when YOU tune into the broadcast where that code
is transmitted.

It would be like you telling the BBC that you forbid them from
'downloading' any Britney Spears music to your DAB radio. You're
tuning into a broadcast - you can't prohibit that broadcast from being
made. You CAN choose not to tune into it.

You clearly have no idea how digital TV, and interactive features in particular,
work.

It is also a bit like saying because I choose to download my email it is my
fault I now have a virus on my PC, and that the solution to such problems is not
to use email.

So your solution to the red dot etc is not to watch TV. That's a really useful
contribution.

Loz

"Ant" wrote in message
...

You miss the point. They are not downloading anything. YOU are
downloading the code when YOU tune into the broadcast where that code
is transmitted.

It would be like you telling the BBC that you forbid them from
'downloading' any Britney Spears music to your DAB radio. You're
tuning into a broadcast - you can't prohibit that broadcast from being
made. You CAN choose not to tune into it.

You clearly have no idea how digital TV, and interactive features in particular,
work.

It is also a bit like saying because I choose to download my email it is my
fault I now have a virus on my PC, and that the solution to such problems is not
to use email.

So your solution to the red dot etc is not to watch TV. That's a really useful
contribution.

Loz

"Ant" wrote in message


On 06 Apr 2004 01:52:28 GMT, lid (Bill
Godfrey) wrote:

These logos on his website do not go over the top of actual content, nor do
they hang around once you scroll down the page.




The ticker can be disabled by selecting "Disable".

The LOGOFREETV News Ticker and Notification Service is designed to allow
users to receive a LIVE asynchronous feed of news, with near real time
notification of new news or forum posts.

Were this to be "integrated" into one page, there would be no fuss. It
just happens that an asynchronous windowed system is the most efficient
means of providing this service to the community.

http://forum.logofreetv.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=590



Unlike the TV broadcasters, we listened to our users, applied common
sense, and allow every body CHOICE.



http://logofreetv.org/content/ticker1/







--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Ant" wrote in message


On 06 Apr 2004 01:52:28 GMT, lid (Bill
Godfrey) wrote:

These logos on his website do not go over the top of actual content, nor do
they hang around once you scroll down the page.




The ticker can be disabled by selecting "Disable".

The LOGOFREETV News Ticker and Notification Service is designed to allow
users to receive a LIVE asynchronous feed of news, with near real time
notification of new news or forum posts.

Were this to be "integrated" into one page, there would be no fuss. It
just happens that an asynchronous windowed system is the most efficient
means of providing this service to the community.

http://forum.logofreetv.org/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=590



Unlike the TV broadcasters, we listened to our users, applied common
sense, and allow every body CHOICE.



http://logofreetv.org/content/ticker1/







--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Evil things popup windows. See what I miss by using a popup blocker?!


There is nothing "evil" about pop-ups or RED DOTs.

It is that pop-ups have been AB-USE-D by advertisors, *******,
pornographers, SPAMmers, junk mailers, and crooks against the wishes of
end users. The Theatre mode has been particularly misused.

The RED DOT system has been designed to mimic the internet pop-up and
SPAM model, and the Sky Box has been engineered to neither adapt towards
the needs (such as the age of the viewer) nor allow that viewer choice
about whether the video spam appears.


All these technologies are capable of being used for "good" or for
"evil", although such a term is very emotive and subjective.

I am willing to take resposibility for my code, to allow end users
choice, to distribute the code for free, to not SPAM my end users, and
not fret about whether people do not use it. I have done everything I
can to use the technology for the benefit of my end users.



Conversely, the RED DOT is targeted at my kids, ignores my pressing of
"BACK UP", violates the CMA 1990 Section 1, aims to steal money from the
unauthorised use by under 16 year olds, fails to Inform or Educate, and
is pretty poor value at entertaining.



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Evil things popup windows. See what I miss by using a popup blocker?!


There is nothing "evil" about pop-ups or RED DOTs.

It is that pop-ups have been AB-USE-D by advertisors, *******,
pornographers, SPAMmers, junk mailers, and crooks against the wishes of
end users. The Theatre mode has been particularly misused.

The RED DOT system has been designed to mimic the internet pop-up and
SPAM model, and the Sky Box has been engineered to neither adapt towards
the needs (such as the age of the viewer) nor allow that viewer choice
about whether the video spam appears.


All these technologies are capable of being used for "good" or for
"evil", although such a term is very emotive and subjective.

I am willing to take resposibility for my code, to allow end users
choice, to distribute the code for free, to not SPAM my end users, and
not fret about whether people do not use it. I have done everything I
can to use the technology for the benefit of my end users.



Conversely, the RED DOT is targeted at my kids, ignores my pressing of
"BACK UP", violates the CMA 1990 Section 1, aims to steal money from the
unauthorised use by under 16 year olds, fails to Inform or Educate, and
is pretty poor value at entertaining.



--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

(Ant) wrote:
These logos on his website do not go over the top of actual content, nor
do they hang around once you scroll down the page.

Really? I just read one of the forum pages mentioned in a link a few
messages back, and not one but TWO large popup windows appeared over
the content I was attempting to read,

Are you? I just tried it and I'm not getting those. I do recall them once
and I thought they say the light and got rid of those blasted popups aeons
ago.

Anyway, the message I was responding to was quite clearly pointing to the
logo placed at the top of each page. *That* I feel is quite defensible. I
even do it on my own website. (Or at least I would if I spent five minutes
maintaining it.) I equally have no complaint about channels playing idents
before a show starts.

If these popups are still going on, I have no idea why. I'll have to leave
it to that site's maintainer to defend those popups. (I'm certainly not
going to.)

Bill, "Oi, sort it out, you're making me look daft here."

(Ant) wrote:
These logos on his website do not go over the top of actual content, nor
do they hang around once you scroll down the page.

Really? I just read one of the forum pages mentioned in a link a few
messages back, and not one but TWO large popup windows appeared over
the content I was attempting to read,

Are you? I just tried it and I'm not getting those. I do recall them once
and I thought they say the light and got rid of those blasted popups aeons
ago.

Anyway, the message I was responding to was quite clearly pointing to the
logo placed at the top of each page. *That* I feel is quite defensible. I
even do it on my own website. (Or at least I would if I spent five minutes
maintaining it.) I equally have no complaint about channels playing idents
before a show starts.

If these popups are still going on, I have no idea why. I'll have to leave
it to that site's maintainer to defend those popups. (I'm certainly not
going to.)

Bill, "Oi, sort it out, you're making me look daft here."

Heracles Pollux wrote:
Evil things popup windows. See what I miss by using a popup blocker?!


There is nothing "evil" about pop-ups or RED DOTs.

I hate them. I block them. They take up bandwidth I pay for and clutter my
screen unnecessarily. You say yourself that integrating them into the main
page would be no bother. They're an unnecessary pain in the backside. If you
took notice of the opinions of the one-time visitors, the ones that don't
come back because of the annoying popups all over the place, you'd know
that. Catering for your crowd of yes-men and lackeys hardly counts as
listening to your users. Heads up - here's an unhappy user, what are you
going to do to ensure I'm satisfied with your site. It's your responsibility
after all.

And I never mentioned red bleeding dots.

[snip rant]

Conversely, the RED DOT is targeted at my kids,

How? Specifically. How, in advertising terms, is a little red dot or a
little banner that reads "Press Red" targetted at kids, as opposed to
everyone else, for whom it is displayed in precisely the same manner?

ignores my pressing of
"BACK UP"

So it works properly now huh?

violates the CMA 1990 Section 1,

If you think so, go ahead and prosecute

aims to steal money from
the unauthorised use by under 16 year olds,

If you don't have control of your kids use of the TV, you're doing something
wrong.

fails to Inform or
Educate, and is pretty poor value at entertaining.

I'll give you that one, as it is *just a little red dot*