Please review my proposed Shuttle Media Center PC spec

In ,
Stephen Neal wrote:

Yep - the DXR3 is I think a close relative of the Sigma Hollywood Plus card

You think right, they're effectively treated as clones of each other in
all the documentation I've seen for Linux. They both have an EM8300
chip, which I think does the decoding and TV out etc, but they have
slightly different front-end chips which I think are what's used for
uploading the firmware, setting the output type etc.

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On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 14:06:17 -0000, "Stephen Neal"
wrote:

Nigel Barker wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:55:27 -0700, "Leadfoot"
wrote:

I would avoid being cheap in the video card department. Check
around in the HTPC forums and see which cards have the best TV out.
Not every Tv-out chip is the same. If you can find a store with a
goood return policy then you cab try it before committing to it.

I don't believe that there any cards on the MCE HCL that have good
TV-out. Average or adequate would be a better description.

Yep - this seems to be my experience. I am quite surprised that such
expensive and high quality video cards have such low quality TV outputs -
especially when it is possible to get a decent quality output using a
VGA-RGB SCART cable, a suitable video card and Powerstrip. (I guess this
is why Powerstrip is so popular in the US, where it can be used to drive
HDTVs via a VGA-Component converter - or in some cases the video cards
themselves can switch to component output)

It seems to me that TV-out is very much an afterthought with even the most
expensive graphics cards. Their design centre seems to be high performance in 3D
gaming. As I've mentioned several times before it is ironic that an Xbox that
costs less than a decent graphics card produces a better quality TV picture. The
Xbox also by default has RGB out & it is possible to upgrade to hi-def
progressive scan with a suitable cable.

I am amazed at the difference in quality that I have got from Windows MCE
since I switched from S-video TV-out to a VGA-SCART RGB solution and
Powerstrip!

You have me very interested in this now although I only solder when I absolutely
have too:-) Let us know what Keane quote you for a custom made cable.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

Tiny Tim wrote:
I have now definitely decided to build my own Media Center PC as I
can't find anything available off the shelf in the UK that meets my
needs and budget. I would appreciate any comments on my proposed spec
in case I have made a boo-boo

- Shuttle XPC SN95G5
- AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 939
- 250GB SATA HDD (haven't chosen model - any suggestions?)
- 2*256MB PC3200 DDR400 ram (any reason not to simply get budget
Crucial/generic memory?)
- NEC 3500A 16X D/L DVD+-RW
- Hauppauge PVR-150-MCE TV card (to record from Sky satellite set top
box - no UHF TV required)
- nVidia FX5200 128MB DVI video card (no brand chosen but anything
cheapish so long as it keeps MCE 2005 happy)
- MCE 2005 remote control
- Win XP MCE 2005 OEM

I'm aware that the proposed video card is pretty low spec but I don't
not want to play games and I do want to keep price and
temperature/noise low. I am only interested in using it as a media
center PC and will not even perform regular PC tasks like internet or
Office work on it as I already have a wireless laptop for that
purpose and an Xbox for games.
The box will be feeding a PAL widescreen TV through s-video (or
possibly a VGA-RGB converter lead). Given that, would I gain any
advantage by getting a higher spec card or by choosing a budget ATI
rather than nVidia? If my needs change I can always upgrade memory
and video in the future but right now I need to keep the price down.
I figure the rest of the components should last me a good while to
come.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Tim.

Just thought I'd update on this in case anyone is intereseted. I have now
completed the build of my brand new MCE PC - it's my first homebuilt and my
first MCE experience, after several years using nothing but laptops.

The final spec is pretty much as above except I have 1*512MB Crucial RAM to
leave a slot free for the future if needed. I also went with a Sapphire
Radeon 9600 Atlantis graphics card (not SE, Pro or XT), following lots of
helpful advice in this newsgroup. I chose a Hitachi Deskstar for my HDD,
based on magazine/web reviews and price. I'm using the nVidia DVD decoder
software.

Given it was my first hardware build I'm pleased at how smoothly it went but
Shuttle's instructions made it easy enough to follow. OS install was a snip
as I've done that countless times with XP Pro (not MCE).

Setting up MCE to work with my Sky satellite box was very frustrating. It
must have taken me at least a dozen attempts to get the remote learning to
work properly and still I think it is a bit temperamental, with perhaps only
two out of three digits of a channel number making it through to the Sky
Box. I don't really know what to do to improve that at the moment.

I also ran into a puzzle with the digital audio output as I was getting
nothing from the regular TV channels or MP3s but DVDs were coming through
load and clear. Anyway, after a bit of fiddling around with the nVidia
control panel and running the audio tests I got it sorted and now have
digital optical and coax working as well as plain old RCA analogue
connections.

TV picture quality was better out of the box than I had hoped, with a proper
full 16:9 screen and strong contrast - very different from my previous
experiences with laptop TV Out sockets. It's the first time I've ever seen a
1024*768 resolution make it successfully to the TV screen. Picture quality
is not pin sharp but it's OK enough, although I'd prefer better. I'd give it
about 6.5/10. But it is having to go via composite into the Shuttle and back
out via s-video so I think that's all I can expect for now.

But apart from the remote control struggle (making unattended recording a
bit hit and miss) I must say the whole concept is a revelation. The Shuttle
sits in a rack under the TV, beside my AV amp and I have junked my VCR, DVD
player and minidisc player. To be able to just pull up TV recordings from a
menu is excellent, as is being able to freely swap between all sorts of
media from one remote. I can't wait to pack my 400+ CDs away for good.

If I need keyboard and mouse control then I just use Remote Desktop or VNC
from my wireless laptop on the coffee table, but the MCE remote really seems
to take care of everything I need once it's all set up.

I think I may actually enjoy watching/listening to my home entertainment
system once more :-)

--
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Tiny Tim wrote:
Setting up MCE to work with my Sky satellite box was very
frustrating. It must have taken me at least a dozen attempts to get
the remote learning to work properly and still I think it is a bit
temperamental, with perhaps only two out of three digits of a channel
number making it through to the Sky Box. I don't really know what to
do to improve that at the moment.
I also ran into a puzzle with the digital audio output as I was
getting nothing from the regular TV channels or MP3s but DVDs were
coming through load and clear. Anyway, after a bit of fiddling around
with the nVidia control panel and running the audio tests I got it
sorted and now have digital optical and coax working as well as plain
old RCA analogue connections.

TV picture quality was better out of the box than I had hoped, with a
proper full 16:9 screen and strong contrast - very different from my
previous experiences with laptop TV Out sockets. It's the first time
I've ever seen a 1024*768 resolution make it successfully to the TV
screen. Picture quality is not pin sharp but it's OK enough, although
I'd prefer better. I'd give it about 6.5/10. But it is having to go
via composite into the Shuttle and back out via s-video so I think
that's all I can expect for now.
But apart from the remote control struggle (making unattended
recording a bit hit and miss) I must say the whole concept is a
revelation. The Shuttle sits in a rack under the TV, beside my AV amp
and I have junked my VCR, DVD player and minidisc player. To be able
to just pull up TV recordings from a menu is excellent, as is being
able to freely swap between all sorts of media from one remote. I
can't wait to pack my 400+ CDs away for good.
If I need keyboard and mouse control then I just use Remote Desktop
or VNC from my wireless laptop on the coffee table, but the MCE
remote really seems to take care of everything I need once it's all
set up.
I think I may actually enjoy watching/listening to my home
entertainment system once more :-)

p.s. what really surprised me was that even the POST screen displays on the
TV during boot so there really is no need at all for a separate monitor.

--
Please quote "easytiger" for your PlusNet referral :-)

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:14:48 -0000, "Tiny Tim" wrote:

Setting up MCE to work with my Sky satellite box was very frustrating. It
must have taken me at least a dozen attempts to get the remote learning to
work properly and still I think it is a bit temperamental, with perhaps only
two out of three digits of a channel number making it through to the Sky
Box. I don't really know what to do to improve that at the moment.

You really shouldn't need to have MCE learn the remote. All standard Sky digibox
remotes are identical (Sky+ ones are different) & MCE just recognises it
immediately. It took me some time to get reliable operation with mine the
problem was extra digits e.g. instead of 101 I got 1101 or 1001. I experimented
with positioning of the IR bug & eventually found the sweet spot moving it even
half an inch from that spot gave problems again. The perfect position was not
directly over the IR receiver but at least an inch to one side. My box is a
Panasonic.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

Nigel Barker wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:14:48 -0000, "Tiny Tim"
wrote:

Setting up MCE to work with my Sky satellite box was very
frustrating. It must have taken me at least a dozen attempts to get
the remote learning to work properly and still I think it is a bit
temperamental, with perhaps only two out of three digits of a
channel number making it through to the Sky Box. I don't really know
what to do to improve that at the moment.

You really shouldn't need to have MCE learn the remote. All standard
Sky digibox remotes are identical (Sky+ ones are different) & MCE
just recognises it immediately. It took me some time to get reliable
operation with mine the problem was extra digits e.g. instead of 101
I got 1101 or 1001. I experimented with positioning of the IR bug &
eventually found the sweet spot moving it even half an inch from that
spot gave problems again. The perfect position was not directly over
the IR receiver but at least an inch to one side. My box is a
Panasonic.

The problem with the training was that for channels with two equal numbers
adjacent (like 111, 112, 113, 311 etc) MCE was sending the codes too quickly
(I've seen this before when programming my Pronto to send codes and having
to insert small delays in between repeated numbers) and I needed to get to
the point in the setup that allows you to slow this down.

Due to the "wizard" design it was a right royal pain to persuade MCE to slow
down the blaster speed, first from Fast to Medium and then from Medium to
Slow. The other problem is that when you use the wizard MCE seems to like to
start everything from scratch rather than let you keep certain settings and
just skip through. So when I tried retraining (I think I did get a couple of
digits cocked up) it seemed to reset the blaster to Fast again. Perhaps it's
just me but that's the impression I got.

The blaster is definitely quirky though - I just got a prompt to request
permission to change channel in order to record a programme and when the
appointed time came the IR blaster did not light up at all and the channel
stayed exactly as it was, even though MCE thought it had changed. When you
record three programmes back to back on the same channel it doesn't bother
resending the channel codes for programmes two and three, so if it didn't
change successfully for the first programme then that's three recordings
buggered up. I think this part of the design needs some work !!

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Please quote "easytiger" for your PlusNet referral :-)

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:14:48 -0000, "Tiny Tim"
wrote:

Just thought I'd update on this in case anyone is intereseted. I have now
completed the build of my brand new MCE PC

mega snip

Thanks for the update. I'm just about to implement my own media
centre machine, based on a Shuttle that I bougth on Ebay, with a
couple of extras added by me. While I really like the idea of using
Windows XP MCE, the Hauppage 350 card I've got doesn't appear to be
supported by MCE, and I don't have a MCE specific remote control (tho
the 350 does have its own remote). So, I think I'll be using a
mixture of 3rd party software (e.g. GB-PVR).


--
Champ

"Stephen Neal" wrote in message
...
Ah - but it makes MCE much nicer to use.

1. If you configure a 1024x576 mode then Windows thinks you are running in
16:9 and so the text on-screen in Windows and Windows Apps remains the
right shape (I am sensitive to stretched pictures)
2. You get more information in the TV Guide as Windows thinks it is
running on a wider desktop (so you get an extra 30 mins of listings in TV
Guide for example)
3. You never have to change aspect ratios, 4:3 stuff is displayed in
pillarbox, 16:9 stuff as full-width. (If Windows thinks you have a 4:3
display you have to force 16:9 stuff into stretch mode in MCE - with your
TV in 16:9 you then get the right shape pictures. However 4:3 stuff then
is also stretched, so you have to reset your TV to 4:3.)


I'm trying to get my system configured this way, but with no luck. I've used
PowerStrip to create a 1024x576 resolution, and the desktop has successfully
changed to that res, but on the TV I just see a 720 x 480 window onto the
larger desktop with black bars on all sides. I can scroll around it as a
virtual desktop.

Using the S-Video out on a Radeon 9600 to a 16:9 TV.

I don't really understand the settings in Power Strip, so an idiots guide
would be good!

Stuart

Stuart Anderton wrote:
"Stephen Neal" wrote in message
...
Ah - but it makes MCE much nicer to use.

1. If you configure a 1024x576 mode then Windows thinks you are
running in 16:9 and so the text on-screen in Windows and Windows
Apps remains the right shape (I am sensitive to stretched pictures)
2. You get more information in the TV Guide as Windows thinks it is
running on a wider desktop (so you get an extra 30 mins of listings
in TV Guide for example)
3. You never have to change aspect ratios, 4:3 stuff is displayed in
pillarbox, 16:9 stuff as full-width. (If Windows thinks you have a
4:3 display you have to force 16:9 stuff into stretch mode in MCE -
with your TV in 16:9 you then get the right shape pictures. However
4:3 stuff then is also stretched, so you have to reset your TV to
4:3.)

I'm trying to get my system configured this way, but with no luck.
I've used PowerStrip to create a 1024x576 resolution, and the desktop
has successfully changed to that res, but on the TV I just see a 720
x 480 window onto the larger desktop with black bars on all sides. I
can scroll around it as a virtual desktop.

Using the S-Video out on a Radeon 9600 to a 16:9 TV.

I don't really understand the settings in Power Strip, so an idiots
guide would be good!

Stuart

I posted a similar question in this newsgroup and on the EnTech Forum and
got a reply to the effect that if you are using TV Out (i.e. s-video) then
all bets are off with Powerstrip. I have a 9600 connected to a 16:9 TV via
s-video too. See short forum thread here.....

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1917

I have started constructing a VGA - RGB Scart lead and have the RGB signal
connections completed but it's not working and it seems I have got to supply
a small switching voltage to one of the Scart pins to force the TV into RGB
mode and have not got round to doing that yet. Xmas has got in the way of
things a bit :-) Rumour is that that is the way to TV display Nirvana.

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In ,
Tiny Tim wrote:

I have started constructing a VGA - RGB Scart lead and have the RGB signal
connections completed but it's not working and it seems I have got to supply
a small switching voltage to one of the Scart pins to force the TV into RGB
mode and have not got round to doing that yet. Xmas has got in the way of
things a bit :-) Rumour is that that is the way to TV display Nirvana.

Are you using http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/ or similar?
Another useful bit of information is that on some graphics cards you can
get 5V from VGA pin 9. With my R9200SE that worked as function select
via the 100R resistor as shown, but I also connected it to SCART pin 8,
which should have selected 16:9, and for some reason that bit didn't
work.

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