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Reality, the typical user



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 7th 04, 07:33 PM
Richard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Reality, the typical user

This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed and
the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner insisted
that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to change
the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set up
his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture was
better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner, refused
to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the retailer
had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.


  #2  
Old June 7th 04, 07:55 PM
Curmudgeon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, it's what YOU are experiencing.
Your relatives are obviously happy as clams with their tv experience.
Your opinion just doesn't count.
It's why fools asking for opinions on totally subjective matters are such a
waste of time and bandwidth.



"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...
This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed

and
the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner

insisted
that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to

change
the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set

up
his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture

was
better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,

refused
to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the

retailer
had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.




  #3  
Old June 7th 04, 08:55 PM
jojo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...
This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed

and
the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner

insisted
that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to

change
the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set

up
his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture

was
better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,

refused
to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the

retailer
had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.


Richard,
I don't know about typical, but I know of 2 household that experience the
same or similar situations,
one of them being mine.
When my SO (significant other) wanted a bigscreen HD TV, I told her fine,
YOU do the research and YOU figure out the best for us, I don't have the
time or inclination to learn a new technology.
She did no research and bought the TV she felt had the best picture in the
store.
She is seemingly happy with the way it was set-up. I on the otherhand have
now been forced into learning
the new technology associated with owning a 57" HDTV because I refuse to
look and a big imperfect picture!
It has been a struggle, because instead on learning on the front end, I have
had to play catch-up and troubleshooter.
Another story.. a friend of mine purchase a sony HDTV and hd cable (time
warner) She was perfectly happy with it till I told her she was NOT getting
HD and should stop paying for it if she was not going to get it.
She had a tech come out and test and sure enough, there were problems
preventing her from receiving hd.
I thin ka lot of consumers expect HD to be "plug and play". Just like
computers today, they want to take it out of the box and plug it in. That's
it.




  #4  
Old June 7th 04, 08:57 PM
Michael J. Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


However there is a reference for how a television should display a
given image. That is the whole reason behind calibrations. If the
director/cinematographer, etc assume a certain calibrated display
device, then why not calibrate your display device to that standard so
the image appears as it should?

It's *not* a matter of opinion. But if a television owners chooses to
set it up incorrectly, that is certainly his call. The relatives in
question may be "happy as clams" with their tv experience, but that
doesn't make it correct.

I may be as happy as can be looking at my Degas print that is hung on
the wall upside down. But just because I'm happy doesn't make it the
right way to hang the painting.


Curmudgeon wrote:
No, it's what YOU are experiencing.
Your relatives are obviously happy as clams with their tv experience.
Your opinion just doesn't count.
It's why fools asking for opinions on totally subjective matters are such a
waste of time and bandwidth.



"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...

This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed


and

the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner


insisted

that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to


change

the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set


up

his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture


was

better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,


refused

to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the


retailer

had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.





  #5  
Old June 7th 04, 09:06 PM
Bob Miller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

jojo wrote:
"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...

This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed


and

the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner


insisted

that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to


change

the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set


up

his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture


was

better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,


refused

to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the


retailer

had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.



Richard,
I don't know about typical, but I know of 2 household that experience the
same or similar situations,
one of them being mine.
When my SO (significant other) wanted a bigscreen HD TV, I told her fine,
YOU do the research and YOU figure out the best for us, I don't have the
time or inclination to learn a new technology.
She did no research and bought the TV she felt had the best picture in the
store.
She is seemingly happy with the way it was set-up. I on the otherhand have
now been forced into learning
the new technology associated with owning a 57" HDTV because I refuse to
look and a big imperfect picture!
It has been a struggle, because instead on learning on the front end, I have
had to play catch-up and troubleshooter.
Another story.. a friend of mine purchase a sony HDTV and hd cable (time
warner) She was perfectly happy with it till I told her she was NOT getting
HD and should stop paying for it if she was not going to get it.
She had a tech come out and test and sure enough, there were problems
preventing her from receiving hd.
I thin ka lot of consumers expect HD to be "plug and play". Just like
computers today, they want to take it out of the box and plug it in. That's
it.

Maybe that is why HDTV OTA is selling so well in Japan. It works plug
and play.



  #6  
Old June 7th 04, 09:55 PM
Dave Oldridge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in
:

This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired
wide screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on
cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated
color, the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly
displayed and the sharpness was way too high. The picture was
dreadful. The owner insisted that he needed both the cable and TV
remote because the cable company told him he did. He did not accept my
offer to program his Sony remote to change the channels on the cable
box and insisted that the cable company had set up his TV so he would
not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The
picture was better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the
cable tuner, refused to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD
player to enjoy the set or conventional analog TV. Again, he was under
the impression that the retailer had set up his set so he was not
interested in any calibration to improve things. Again, the color was
too saturated, sharpness too high and the set was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.


Yes and they are experiencing it all too often in the stores when they go
shopping so they never actually get to SEE the difference. Operating my
Samsung on the default settings gives just TERRIBLE results. And the set
needed calibration right out of the box (fortunately I can do it myself
with a little eyeballing). The main faults of the "normal" video
settings are too much contrast (it's all the way up), too bright (also
all the way up) and too saturated. The "mild" settings are only a bit
better. I ended up turning the contrast down to around 33, the
brightness to about 60 and the saturation I adjust according to content,
usually between 25 and 35. The result is a natural-looking picture that
is a lot easier on the monitor with respect to burn-in effects.

Sometimes an HDTV channel will provoke me to increase the brightness a
point or two and lower the saturation a bit. But mostly I just leave it
alone once I get good pics.

I did see a decent picture the other day on a rear projection TV at
Future Shop, though. The salesman had connected a satellite receiver and
tweaked the set up for a nice picture on an HDTV channel. That's all too
rare.

--
Dave Oldridge
ICQ 1800667

Paradoxically, most real events are highly improbable.
  #7  
Old June 8th 04, 12:50 AM
Jim Waggener
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.



So what tools can one use to calibrate with?

Jim the dunce




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  #8  
Old June 8th 04, 01:13 AM
JDeats
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Posts: n/a
Default

It's a large undertaking to do the research before buying an HDTV. The
problem is- who do you trust? I spend many months at many retailers
talking with techs to sales clerks. In fact put so much time into it
that I developed a passion for it and I understand why people are
passionate about this technology.

Your story is very common. People view an HDTV like any other house
hold applicance. Even when a sales assoicate tries to convince
customers otherwise often people buy based on what their eyes tell
them about the picture quality (based on the show room models). I'd
love to see some estimates of just how many people buy HDTV's this
way. I've ask department manager at a local Circut City and he said if
he had to guess maybe 3 out of 5 consumers walk in and buy a HDTV with
some comment like "wow, that model looks the best. I'll take that
one", even fewer solicit his sales associates opnion. Although at his
store they do their best to educate the customer without offending
them (this seems to be a struggle for him).

There are serveral problems with buying an HDTV based soley off the
showroom floor. To list a few:

1. If a retailer wants to "move product" on a specific brand and
model, they have the ability to manipulate settings to make one TV
look better than the others. (very few customer's seem brave enough to
play with all the settings on the show room models).

2. To get reception to all the floor models, the feed has to be split,
over and over again. As a result some HDTVs on the floor may have
better quality reception based on where they are in the chain.

3. The difference in quality in analog (NTSC) signal and HD content is
very large. Many people are replacing the family TV and will be
watching a great deal of analog/NTSC content. Some models have line
doublers, and some even HD up converters to make the analog sources
look much better good. Most of the time on the sales floor you only
see HD feed or DVD feed. Aspect ratios and burn-in (something not
covered under warrenty) is another issue many people learn nothing
about.

It amazes me how many US consumers do not educate themselds before
they buy products. We generally put too much faith in brand names or
we just buy as cheap as possible thinking "it can't be that bad... it
has warrenty".

But before you go feeling to bad. The worse case I've seen yet. One my
best friends has a 65" Mitsubishi HDTV-ready he bought three years
ago. I found out he had an HD cable box for nine months and was
running though s-video cable the whole time. Someone finally told him
that he needed component cables to pull in HD. After that I started to
understand why he would always make comments like "HD doesn't look
that much better".

-Jeremy
--------------------------------------------
New to HDTV? Check out my HDTV Buyers FAQ
http://hdtv.0catch.com
--------------------------------------------






"jojo" wrote in message om...
"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...
This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed

and
the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner

insisted
that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to

change
the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set

up
his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture

was
better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,

refused
to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the

retailer
had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.


Richard,
I don't know about typical, but I know of 2 household that experience the
same or similar situations,
one of them being mine.
When my SO (significant other) wanted a bigscreen HD TV, I told her fine,
YOU do the research and YOU figure out the best for us, I don't have the
time or inclination to learn a new technology.
She did no research and bought the TV she felt had the best picture in the
store.
She is seemingly happy with the way it was set-up. I on the otherhand have
now been forced into learning
the new technology associated with owning a 57" HDTV because I refuse to
look and a big imperfect picture!
It has been a struggle, because instead on learning on the front end, I have
had to play catch-up and troubleshooter.
Another story.. a friend of mine purchase a sony HDTV and hd cable (time
warner) She was perfectly happy with it till I told her she was NOT getting
HD and should stop paying for it if she was not going to get it.
She had a tech come out and test and sure enough, there were problems
preventing her from receiving hd.
I thin ka lot of consumers expect HD to be "plug and play". Just like
computers today, they want to take it out of the box and plug it in. That's
it.

  #9  
Old June 8th 04, 02:33 AM
Tim S. Harbison
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I feel your pain... this is exactly why I've given up trying to help any of
my relatives with anything even remotely high-tech... I might change the oil
in my moms car, but that's about as far as I'll go these days.

By the way... for a laugh, for some reason, I read "This weekend I visited
two of my wife's relatives" as "wives relatives"... damn... poor sap... he
has more than one!

"Richard" rfeirste at nycap.rr.com wrote in message
...
This weekend I visited two of my wife's relatives. They both acquired wide
screen rear projectors several months ago. They both were on cable.

The first a Sony tube projector, was set with overtly oversaturated color,
the whites were overdriven, and blacker than black was clearly displayed

and
the sharpness was way too high. The picture was dreadful. The owner

insisted
that he needed both the cable and TV remote because the cable company told
him he did. He did not accept my offer to program his Sony remote to

change
the channels on the cable box and insisted that the cable company had set

up
his TV so he would not let me touch it.

The second relative had a new Panasonic LCD rear projector. The picture

was
better but he too did not set up he remote to tune the cable tuner,

refused
to pay for digital cable and only used the DVD player to enjoy the set or
conventional analog TV. Again, he was under the impression that the

retailer
had set up his set so he was not interested in any calibration to improve
things. Again, the color was too saturated, sharpness too high and the set
was too bright.

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.




  #10  
Old June 8th 04, 03:17 PM
Michael J. Sherman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jim Waggener wrote:

I think this is mostly typical of what the consumers are experiencing.

Richard.




So what tools can one use to calibrate with?


I use the Avia DVD. It has a bunch of tutorials and calibration
screens for both video and audio.

That DVD and a sound pressure meter is all you should need to
calibrate your complete home theater.
 




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