A Home cinema forum. HomeCinemaBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HomeCinemaBanter forum » Home cinema newsgroups » UK digital tv
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Various things .



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old July 4th 19, 10:59 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
NY[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Various things .

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
The curio here is that the various reports on the contents of patents that
the companies have been getting imply a quite different mode of operation.
i.e. Having the device send rather more info 'back to base' than the above
may imply. It also reports that the companies have the ability to switch
on
listening remotely, and have done so at least in some cases. Indeed, there
are also reports that some of their staff have done so purely for
'amusement'.


Having recently connected our Alexas to the network in our new house, which
initially worked as a functioning LAN but with no WAN connection (until VDSL
was enabled at our new house) I was surprised at how much did work. I could
ask it the time and it responded, which suggests that the speech recognition
is taking place at the Alexa, not at "head office". I *think* I could also
"drop in" to another Alexa on our LAN, so the ability to do that doesn't
involve any WAN traffic; logically it *shouldn't* do, because all the data
of the sound recording goes between two LAN devices, but stranger things
have happened: TeamViewer and RealVNC need a WAN connection even to access
one computer from another on the same LAN. (*)

I did not get repeated "bongs" from an Alexa which was connected to the wifi
network but had not WAN connection, so it may not be as simple as Alexa
monitoring for keepalive replies from "head office".

I wonder what data really *is* sent back to base when Alexa is dormant and
waiting for the keyword - it is permanently sending back what it is hearing,
or is it only sending back what it hears after the keyword, with the looped
recording only held locally? We know how they *say* it works, but if remote
listening is possible, then it suggests something different.



(*) RealVNC *does* have the concept of direct connection between two LAN
computers, but only if you pay for the subscription version, otherwise
traffic goes via a central server - except when connecting to a Raspberry Pi
which has the relevant server software (including direct connections)
bundled with it on the OS distro.

  #12  
Old July 4th 19, 11:03 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Andy Burns[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 955
Default Various things .

Jim Lesurf wrote:

The curio here is that the various reports on the contents of patents that
the companies have been getting imply a quite different mode of operation.
i.e. Having the device send rather more info 'back to base' than the above
may imply. It also reports that the companies have the ability to switch on
listening remotely, and have done so at least in some cases. Indeed, there
are also reports that some of their staff have done so purely for
'amusement'.


Previous hints from Andy indicate he was(?) in a good position to know
what the devices are capable of ...

  #13  
Old July 4th 19, 01:14 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,567
Default Various things .

In article , NY wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
The curio here is that the various reports on the contents of patents
that the companies have been getting imply a quite different mode of
operation. i.e. Having the device send rather more info 'back to base'
than the above may imply. It also reports that the companies have the
ability to switch on listening remotely, and have done so at least in
some cases. Indeed, there are also reports that some of their staff
have done so purely for 'amusement'.


Having recently connected our Alexas to the network in our new house,
which initially worked as a functioning LAN but with no WAN connection
(until VDSL was enabled at our new house) I was surprised at how much
did work. I could ask it the time and it responded, which suggests that
the speech recognition is taking place at the Alexa, not at "head
office".


Well, again, the reports I've read essentially say that the Alexa class of
devices lack the power required, so send any detected sound off for
recogntion. I'd assume that comment words like 'Alexa' and 'time' would be
recognised very quickly as they'd be so common.

Whatever the reality, I've long since ceased trusting the PR from large
'tech' companies.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #14  
Old July 4th 19, 03:47 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,824
Default Various things .

Yes I'm sure you can do such things, but if you do want total privacy there
is a button for that, or as with most things simply unplug it.
I am often laughing when you play the recordings it has made on abortive
accesses, ie when it thinks its heard things but has not. It would I imagine
be hardly great listening.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Vir Campestris
wrote:
On 03/07/2019 11:53, Brian Gaff wrote:
No its always on, as it sometimes will say dong, I have lost my
connection to the internet. My box was made before Digital
switchovover.


Wifi goes back to 1997. Is your box that old?


Echo will sit there listening for "Alexa", recording into an internal
ring buffer. Unless it hears the word the only WiFi traffic is
occasional keep-alive packets - several a minute, but certainly not up
to the one-a-second range. I don't recall how many.


The curio here is that the various reports on the contents of patents that
the companies have been getting imply a quite different mode of operation.
i.e. Having the device send rather more info 'back to base' than the above
may imply. It also reports that the companies have the ability to switch
on
listening remotely, and have done so at least in some cases. Indeed, there
are also reports that some of their staff have done so purely for
'amusement'.

Can/have you measured the actual data capacity of the "occasional" packets
outgoing?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html



  #15  
Old July 4th 19, 03:51 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,824
Default Various things .

I am told that if you write a script to allow the change to the wake word
from the speaker, you can at a certain point say poke something then a
completely different word and customise it, but it will only stick till the
power is off, since its in volatile memory apparently.
Could be fun to call it slave girl or after somebody you don't like I
guess.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

The curio here is that the various reports on the contents of patents
that
the companies have been getting imply a quite different mode of
operation.
i.e. Having the device send rather more info 'back to base' than the
above
may imply. It also reports that the companies have the ability to switch
on
listening remotely, and have done so at least in some cases. Indeed,
there
are also reports that some of their staff have done so purely for
'amusement'.


Previous hints from Andy indicate he was(?) in a good position to know
what the devices are capable of ...



  #16  
Old July 5th 19, 10:53 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Robin[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default Various things .

On 04/07/2019 12:14, Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip

Well, again, the reports I've read essentially say that the Alexa class of
devices lack the power required, so send any detected sound off for
recogntion. I'd assume that comment words like 'Alexa' and 'time' would be
recognised very quickly as they'd be so common.


I have no knowledge of Alexa but Google state explicitly that that is
not how Google Home works.

"Google Home listens in short (a few seconds) snippets for the hotword.
Those snippets are deleted if the hotword is not detected, and none of
that information leaves your device until the hotword is heard. When
Google Home detects that you've said "Ok Google" or “Hey Google”, or
that you've physically long pressed the top of your Google Home device,
the LEDs on top of the device light up to tell you that recording is
happening, Google Home records what you say, and sends that recording
(including the few-second hotword recording) to Google in order to
fulfill your request."

While such firms are masters at dissembling I think an outright lie on
something that could so easily be detected rather improbable.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
  #17  
Old July 5th 19, 03:47 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default Various things .


"Robin" wrote in message
...
On 04/07/2019 12:14, Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip

Well, again, the reports I've read essentially say that the Alexa class
of
devices lack the power required, so send any detected sound off for
recogntion. I'd assume that comment words like 'Alexa' and 'time' would
be
recognised very quickly as they'd be so common.


I have no knowledge of Alexa but Google state explicitly that that is not
how Google Home works.

"Google Home listens in short (a few seconds) snippets for the hotword.
Those snippets are deleted if the hotword is not detected, and none of
that information leaves your device until the hotword is heard. When
Google Home detects that you've said "Ok Google" or “Hey Google”, or that
you've physically long pressed the top of your Google Home device, the
LEDs on top of the device light up to tell you that recording is
happening, Google Home records what you say, and sends that recording
(including the few-second hotword recording) to Google in order to fulfill
your request."

While such firms are masters at dissembling I think an outright lie on
something that could so easily be detected rather improbable.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid


I asked Echo for radio 4 extra last night and it promtly started sounding
off farts, saying 'this is a long fart', 'this is a short fart' it went on
for ages.

  #18  
Old July 6th 19, 11:40 AM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Phi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 365
Default Various things .


"Charlie+" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Jul 2019 12:14:13 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote as underneath :

snip

Whatever the reality, I've long since ceased trusting the PR from large
'tech' companies.


+1 I also!
Slightly OT but in the general area of security and what these giant
companies are doing with your data or inferred data, I found this a very
worthwhile listen if you have BBC access:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002b8l
(Start the Week - Who is watching you?) C+


++

  #19  
Old July 7th 19, 11:00 PM posted to uk.tech.digital-tv
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default Various things .

On 04/07/2019 09:59, NY wrote:
Having recently connected our Alexas to the network in our new house,
which initially worked as a functioning LAN but with no WAN connection
(until VDSL was enabled at our new house) I was surprised at how much
did work. I could ask it the time and it responded, which suggests that
the speech recognition is taking place at the Alexa, not at "head office".


That was enough of a shock to me that I went and tested it.

Unplug the router from the modem, and Alexa merely complains she has
trouble. Won't tell me the time.

I hope she recovers in a minute, or SWMBO will be bollocking me!

Andy
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
hours of space for various recording qualities? JLove98905 Tivo personal television 6 August 19th 04 02:40 PM
Comparing various TiVO platforms Mark Shaw Tivo personal television 2 July 18th 04 12:03 AM
Various receiver sensitivities Nonesuch High definition TV 24 January 7th 04 10:40 PM
Various HDTV questions - 48 Hours, Benihana ad, Ch. allocations Larry G High definition TV 1 October 16th 03 05:43 PM
Connecting various devices to home cinema speakers Tim Sampson Home theater (general) 0 July 10th 03 11:04 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 HomeCinemaBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.