Installation of Long RG-6U Quad Cable (>100ft)

I just installed a mounting post for my new multi-satellite dish (18"x20")
approximately 100 feet from my house. I'm using a RG-6U quad coaxial
cable--I bought a 500 feet roll from HomeDepot. I believe the quad cable has
more ground (shielding) than normal RG-6 and I suppose the U means
"underground capatible". When I connect my receivers in my house to the
satellite dish, the total length could as much as 150 feet.The installation
directions state that the distance must be less than 100 feet for good
reception. However, for distances greater than 150 feet, a AC power booster
module (to bias the LNB) and an additional RF signal amplifier will be
required.

What the heck is a power booster module and a RF signal amplifier? Do I
really need these? Or could I get by without them--I live in southwestern
Ohio.

Thanks for any advice.

"Chad O'Brien" wrote:
I just installed a mounting post for my new multi-satellite dish (18"x20")
approximately 100 feet from my house. I'm using a RG-6U quad coaxial
cable--I bought a 500 feet roll from HomeDepot. I believe the quad cable has
more ground (shielding) than normal RG-6 and I suppose the U means
"underground capatible".

The "quad shield" is a generic copy of Belden's QuadraShield which
debuted in the mid 80s, as I recall. It has 2 layers of braid and 2 layers
of foil if it's real "QS". It's commonly used by the cable TV companies
for its superior shielding which keeps their signals inside (required by the
FCC) and keeps broadcast signals outside (which threaten the quality of
their signals). The /U does not represent any underground capability,
but what it does stand for very few people know (including me).


When I connect my receivers in my house to the satellite dish, the total
length could as much as 150 feet. The installation directions state that
the distance must be less than 100 feet for good reception.


The first capability to suffer is the ability of the satellite "receiver" to
command a dual LNB to switch between left- and right-polarization
(i.e. between odd and even channel numbers). Good RG-6 should be
good for 200 feet of signal transmission.


However, for distances greater than 150 feet, a AC power booster
module (to bias the LNB) and an additional RF signal amplifier will be
required.


A power booster - maybe. An RF signal amplifier - probably not.


What the heck is a power booster module and a RF signal amplifier?
Do I really need these? Or could I get by without them--I live in southwestern
Ohio.


A power booster is to assist the receiver to command a dual LNB over
a long distance. With new RG-6 and good F-connectors, 150 feet should
be no sweat.

An RF signal amplifier is to boost the power of the signal coming from
the LNB to the receiver. You probably won't need either. Try the system
first without them. Symptoms of inadequate signal power are lots of
intermittent pixelation (rectangular blocks) appearing, freezing of the picture,
and no picture. If you do get an RF amplifier, be sure that it handles the
band between 950MHz and 1,550MHz (1.55GHz), which is higher than
broadcast and cable TV frequencies.

Now - the big question which should be on your mind: What the heck
are "good" F-connectors? "Good" F-connectors are the kind which are
known as "compression fit". They grip evenly all around the coaxial cable
so as not to put a crimp or dimple in the walls of the cable, which are
caused by localized pressure points in the dielectric plastic foam and which,
in turn, give rise to localized changes in impedance, which cause signal
reflections, which confuse the receiver. (For the same reason, avoid bends
in the cable that have radii that are tighter than 10 times the outside
diameter of the cable. A CD is a convenient template.) Compression fit
connectors also do a better job of keeping water out. Unfortunately for
you, the tool to attach compression fit F-connectors can be expensive -
ranging from $35 to $75, depending on brand and supplier. Good
common brands are Snap-N-Seal and DigiCon. Call the major electrical
supply houses like Graybar for Snap-N-Seal hardware, or search at
Google.com. Here is just one website that carries DigiCon connectors:
http://www.cencom94.com/catalog2.0.html . Notice the weathertight
seal around the cable (a feature of Snap-N-Seal as well). That's one
reason the cable TV companies use them. Another is that they don't
pull off (which saves on trouble calls). And above all, get the right size
connector for the cable (there are two sizes of RG-6 connector, the
larger size for the quad shield).


FranklinWright

Excellent response, Franklin (and thanks for the reference). I was
going to bring up the characteristic impedance changes caused by
hex-crimp fittings, then on my second reading I saw that you had already
covered that.

The only thing that I'm going to add is that RG/U comes from an old
military designation meaning Radial Ground/Utilities.


CIAO!

Ed Nielsen
CENCOM
http://www.cencom94.com

Franklin Wright wrote:
"Chad O'Brien" wrote:

I just installed a mounting post for my new multi-satellite dish (18"x20")
approximately 100 feet from my house. I'm using a RG-6U quad coaxial
cable--I bought a 500 feet roll from HomeDepot. I believe the quad cable has
more ground (shielding) than normal RG-6 and I suppose the U means
"underground capatible".


The "quad shield" is a generic copy of Belden's QuadraShield which
debuted in the mid 80s, as I recall. It has 2 layers of braid and 2 layers
of foil if it's real "QS". It's commonly used by the cable TV companies
for its superior shielding which keeps their signals inside (required by the
FCC) and keeps broadcast signals outside (which threaten the quality of
their signals). The /U does not represent any underground capability,
but what it does stand for very few people know (including me).



When I connect my receivers in my house to the satellite dish, the total
length could as much as 150 feet. The installation directions state that
the distance must be less than 100 feet for good reception.



The first capability to suffer is the ability of the satellite "receiver" to
command a dual LNB to switch between left- and right-polarization
(i.e. between odd and even channel numbers). Good RG-6 should be
good for 200 feet of signal transmission.



However, for distances greater than 150 feet, a AC power booster
module (to bias the LNB) and an additional RF signal amplifier will be
required.



A power booster - maybe. An RF signal amplifier - probably not.



What the heck is a power booster module and a RF signal amplifier?
Do I really need these? Or could I get by without them--I live in southwestern
Ohio.



A power booster is to assist the receiver to command a dual LNB over
a long distance. With new RG-6 and good F-connectors, 150 feet should
be no sweat.

An RF signal amplifier is to boost the power of the signal coming from
the LNB to the receiver. You probably won't need either. Try the system
first without them. Symptoms of inadequate signal power are lots of
intermittent pixelation (rectangular blocks) appearing, freezing of the picture,
and no picture. If you do get an RF amplifier, be sure that it handles the
band between 950MHz and 1,550MHz (1.55GHz), which is higher than
broadcast and cable TV frequencies.

Now - the big question which should be on your mind: What the heck
are "good" F-connectors? "Good" F-connectors are the kind which are
known as "compression fit". They grip evenly all around the coaxial cable
so as not to put a crimp or dimple in the walls of the cable, which are
caused by localized pressure points in the dielectric plastic foam and which,
in turn, give rise to localized changes in impedance, which cause signal
reflections, which confuse the receiver. (For the same reason, avoid bends
in the cable that have radii that are tighter than 10 times the outside
diameter of the cable. A CD is a convenient template.) Compression fit
connectors also do a better job of keeping water out. Unfortunately for
you, the tool to attach compression fit F-connectors can be expensive -
ranging from $35 to $75, depending on brand and supplier. Good
common brands are Snap-N-Seal and DigiCon. Call the major electrical
supply houses like Graybar for Snap-N-Seal hardware, or search at
Google.com. Here is just one website that carries DigiCon connectors:
http://www.cencom94.com/catalog2.0.html . Notice the weathertight
seal around the cable (a feature of Snap-N-Seal as well). That's one
reason the cable TV companies use them. Another is that they don't
pull off (which saves on trouble calls). And above all, get the right size
connector for the cable (there are two sizes of RG-6 connector, the
larger size for the quad shield).


FranklinWright

"Ed Nielsen" wrote:
....RG/U comes from an old
military designation meaning Radial Ground/Utilities.


Of course! :-) And, I guess, there's a Mil Spec
for "RG/U" which has become an industry standard?


FranklinWright

I know you probably do not like us MSNTV (WEBTV) users,but unfortunately
these cheapo boxes cannot read MS-WORD attachments.Could you maybe
provide an HTML one too? I know this thread was aimed at another
poster,but I got kind of interested in reading it(curious)......if not,I
understand.....or maybe a link to the docs?

"Ed Nielsen" wrote:
A writing I read recently defined RG as "Radial Ground," while
for the past 30 years I understood it to mean "Radio Guide."


Whatever the real original acronym stood for, "Radio Guide"
makes the most technical sense. In a Radial Ground Plane
antenna, the wires radiating horizontally out from the bottom of a
vertical "whip" antenna have to be unshielded to act as a ground
plane (i.e. simulated reflective surface), so using coaxial cable
for that purpose wouldn't work. Maybe it came about from
use of coaxial cable to *feed* a radial ground plane antenna,
which does make electrical sense. In any event, "Radio Guide"
makes the most physical sense today because a coaxial cable
is primarily a wave guide at the RF frequencies of normal
use, not just a conductor of electricity. As I recall from my
college EE courses, most of the energy of a radio signal in
such a guide is not in the electrical current carried in the two
conductors (center and braid/foil), but rather in the electro-
magnetic wave propagating along the cable *between* the
conductors, i.e. in the air or plastic dielectric foam, just as
electro-magnetic waves do in free air or space. Considering
that the "signal" is primarily where the energy is, calling coaxial
cable a "flexible wave guide" is quite accurate, and "Radio
Guide" seems like an appropriate name - or at least a good
mnemonic - for the stuff.



According to the "RG Designation" attachment, "The slash
designations, such as /U, /A/U and so on, were assigned to
a cable by its original manufacturer to designate it however
he wanted. Thus, there is no consistent meaning to the slash
numbers."

Attached are a couple of really good articles on the subject.


The 2nd article, by Steve Lampen of Belden Electronics, is
really a good summary of the insides of coaxial cable. Thanks
for posting it! It should be in a Coaxial Cable FAQ for RF
Enthusiasts. Could you post a link to it in case the attachment
doesn't make it into Groups.Google?


FranklinWright

This is in response to SAC441 as well:

I've placed links to both articles at http://www.cencom94.com/links.html.

The Communications Technology International article I had to do
differently. I don't think it's in publication anymore (couldn't find
it, anyway), so I created a page just for that article then created a
link to it on the "Links" page. I'm glad I copied it awhile back.

You're absolutely right about the concentration of RF energy being in
the dielectric (whether it be foam, plastic, air, or whatever,) and as
such, coaxial cable is merely a waveguide.

The radial ground reference was, as you suggested, to the coaxial cable
feeding the radial ground plane antenna.

Franklin Wright wrote:
"Ed Nielsen" wrote:

A writing I read recently defined RG as "Radial Ground," while
for the past 30 years I understood it to mean "Radio Guide."



Whatever the real original acronym stood for, "Radio Guide"
makes the most technical sense. In a Radial Ground Plane
antenna, the wires radiating horizontally out from the bottom of a
vertical "whip" antenna have to be unshielded to act as a ground
plane (i.e. simulated reflective surface), so using coaxial cable
for that purpose wouldn't work. Maybe it came about from
use of coaxial cable to *feed* a radial ground plane antenna,
which does make electrical sense. In any event, "Radio Guide"
makes the most physical sense today because a coaxial cable
is primarily a wave guide at the RF frequencies of normal
use, not just a conductor of electricity. As I recall from my
college EE courses, most of the energy of a radio signal in
such a guide is not in the electrical current carried in the two
conductors (center and braid/foil), but rather in the electro-
magnetic wave propagating along the cable *between* the
conductors, i.e. in the air or plastic dielectric foam, just as
electro-magnetic waves do in free air or space. Considering
that the "signal" is primarily where the energy is, calling coaxial
cable a "flexible wave guide" is quite accurate, and "Radio
Guide" seems like an appropriate name - or at least a good
mnemonic - for the stuff.




According to the "RG Designation" attachment, "The slash
designations, such as /U, /A/U and so on, were assigned to
a cable by its original manufacturer to designate it however
he wanted. Thus, there is no consistent meaning to the slash
numbers."

Attached are a couple of really good articles on the subject.



The 2nd article, by Steve Lampen of Belden Electronics, is
really a good summary of the insides of coaxial cable. Thanks
for posting it! It should be in a Coaxial Cable FAQ for RF
Enthusiasts. Could you post a link to it in case the attachment
doesn't make it into Groups.Google?


FranklinWright

Thankyou for providing the link on the origin of "RU" designated cables!