Where is HD - TIVO????

So many issues raised in this article.. where to start??

http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0504/28.hdtivo.html

How about the "only 5,000 HD Direct TV units for 2004" issue??
WTF is up with that???

2 friggin years after the product is "announced" and they can only
ship 5,000 units??? Holy ****e!!

Software problems are said to be the reason?? How can this be???
We're talking about TIVO - All hail Tivo - not scientific Atlanta.

And what's up with Sony coming out with a Tivo - HD cable box this
summer?? Why haven't you Tivo rumpswabs kept up to date with that?

Or is it Tivo execs just floating rumors to keep the stock price up
long enough for them to be able to bail out.

TIVO - Dead Company Walking

Sean

* Sean Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

What part of "entire 2004 allotment" do you not understand???

The part with *Supposedly* in front of it?

Also, seems funny, all this talk of how much trouble Tivo is in and
yet all these wonderful competitors you cum all over still haven't
taken the market by storm. Since that article was
bragging about how wonderful the HDTV market is doing why they didnt
have any alternatives listed.

Here is another quote from this rumpswabs articles on CES:

"HD PVRs – I honestly expected to see more HDTV recorders at CES. I
wasn't able to make it to TiVo's press conference but I have heard
from good sources they will have an HDTV version in Q1 2004. Dish
Network had an HDTV PVR (not a TiVo) that was looking good and fully
functional. We were able to zip through prerecorded HD material and
the image still looked fantastic. I am sure there was some
compression however that would be a small price to pay to actually
be able to record the best in HDTV so you can watch it on your own
schedule."

Based on some other stats available if you are so inclined survey of
HDTV/DVR owners stated only about 50% of those users saw the ability
to record in HDTV as important.

https://www.lyra.com/dtvview.nsf/a2ba02c70f9847e385256e8a00479dcf/$FILE/DTVView_DVR_Love.pdf


You have a little left right in the corner of your mouth, here is a napkin.
--
David

Sean none shaped the electrons to say:
So many issues raised in this article.. where to start??

Really - all I see is speculation.

How about the "only 5,000 HD Direct TV units for 2004" issue??
WTF is up with that???

How about the "Supposedly" that you (deliberately, I suspect) left
off. Supposedly according to whom? Certainly not DirecTV nor TiVo.
In their recent quarterly con-call TiVo said sales of the unit have
been very good and they expect it to help drive revenue this year -
that statement doesn't make sense if there are only 5,000. Even if
that is $5,000,000 at retail prices. ;-)

Software problems are said to be the reason?? How can this be???

By whom? What are the supposed problems?

And what's up with Sony coming out with a Tivo - HD cable box this
summer?? Why haven't you Tivo rumpswabs kept up to date with that?

How about the post I made last week?
---
They were asked about a digital ready cable box - "Obviously we've not
announced any plans. It is a very interesting place for us to look and
we have spent quite a bit of time in this area. I think in the future
we are certainly considering cable ready products although the state
of the art in that space is still somewhat in flux. But I think we're
getting pretty close to the point where its real, there's the FCC
mandate, and its embraced by principally television companies,
companies who make televisions today, but I think its a natural
extension to think of that capability being available in a TiVo-like
environment. We're not ready to make any announcements of anything
we're doing there, but you should know that it is an area that we're
looking at pretty closely."
---

My years of reading, listening too, and even writing corp-speak
translates that as "look, we're working on something in this area but
we aren't ready to make an announcement yet - keep your pants on."

So maybe they *are* working with Sony on a box, or maybe not - maybe
they're working on their own reference design. Who knows? I've been
saying for a long time that it makes sense for them to do a CableCARD
box once there is sufficient infrastructure in place - and the mandate
is July 2004. (Though I expect a lot of cable companies will be
looking for waivers or have incomplete roll-outs even then.) And that
doing digital cable before CableCARD makes little sense from either an
engineering or a business point of view because of the need to decrypt
the signal.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

Sean none shaped the electrons to say:
What part of "entire 2004 allotment" do you not understand???

What part of 'Supposedly' do you not understand?

Sounds like a reporter was looking for something to stir the **** with
and he picked up some rumor from TiVoCommunity. I was reading ****
like that months before the boxes shipped - all kinds of crazy rumors
about limited numbers, being pushed out until the fall, etc.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

MegaZone ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
By whom? What are the supposed problems?

The "software problems" with the DirecTV HD-DVR250 consist mostly of the
wishlist things that didn't get included, as well as a few things that
could have been done better about dealing with sub-channels and channel
scanning (the exact same problems which many other HD STBs have).

In other words, there aren't really any bugs...just features that aren't
pleasing to 100% of people.

--
Jeff Rife |
SPAM bait: | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesW...****erBowl.jpg
|
|

On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 00:10:12 -0400, Jeff Rife wrote:

MegaZone ) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
By whom? What are the supposed problems?


In other words, there aren't really any bugs...just features

You sound like Bill Gates describing the next release of Windows.

If only those stupid users were smart enough to understand the
product, everything would be great.

TIVO - Dead Company Walking

Sean

Sean none shaped the electrons to say:
No practical way for Tivo to solve the problem????? How can that

Actually there is - CableCARD. And if you read my post you know their
recent comments on that. Sounds like it is coming.

Oh wait, the cable companies ARE producing HD cable DVR's while
Tivo sits with their thumbs up their asses.

That's because pre-CableCARD the only way to do it is partnerships
with the cable provider. They have to load their decryption keys into
the cable STB. So *no* third parties - like TiVo - can do it. But
CableCARD changes all that and anyone can build a standards compliant
decoder.

Whatever excuse you want to use, Tivo is doomed.

You haven't bothered to look into ANY of this, have you?

When that happens will they be able to sell the product for $9 per
month like the cable companies will? On a lease basis? And will
any customers care since they'll already have their cable companies
product?

Yes, yes, yes. Will they - probably not, probably not, and yes.

There is no reason they can't lease boxes, or that a 3rd party
couldn't lease the boxes. But why bother? Leasing SUCKS. I notice
there is huge a HUGE marker for leasing VCRs, DVD decks, TVs, etc.
Your local Rent-A-Center can lease you a TiVo if they want.

If they produce a digital cable ready box they'll sell it just like
they sell them today - and just like companies sell VCRs, DVDs, and
TVs. The only reason you lease a cable STB is because it is tied to
the cable provider - if you could take it around with you then buying
is almost always a better option.

It is like cable broadband. Before DOCSIS you had to lease the cable
modem from the cable company - but once DOCSIS came out you'd be
STUPID to pay for a lease because you can BUY a cable modem fairly
cheaply and use it anywhere. Most cable companies, if they have any
ethics, will offer to lease you one but recommend that you buy your
own.

The only reason to have a cable box is because you can't access
something without one. If CableCARD lets you tune the content, then
you don't use a box and you buy CableCARD devices - there are TVs with
it out now.

TiVo most certainly could offer financing at $9/month if they wanted
to, but there is no good business reason to do so unless/until the
cable DVRs can compete on features - they just market their product as
costing a bit more, but doing a LOT more.

Plus they're getting TiVo into homes asa Trojan in DVD devices, and
that is expected to increase. So if you already have TiVo in your
DVD-RW deck, why pay for a cable company DVR at all?

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/ Eris

"MegaZone" wrote in message
...
Sean none shaped the electrons to say:
No practical way for Tivo to solve the problem????? How can that

Actually there is - CableCARD. And if you read my post you know their
recent comments on that. Sounds like it is coming.

Oh wait, the cable companies ARE producing HD cable DVR's while
Tivo sits with their thumbs up their asses.

That's because pre-CableCARD the only way to do it is partnerships
with the cable provider. They have to load their decryption keys into
the cable STB. So *no* third parties - like TiVo - can do it. But
CableCARD changes all that and anyone can build a standards compliant
decoder.

Whatever excuse you want to use, Tivo is doomed.

You haven't bothered to look into ANY of this, have you?

When that happens will they be able to sell the product for $9 per
month like the cable companies will? On a lease basis? And will
any customers care since they'll already have their cable companies
product?

Yes, yes, yes. Will they - probably not, probably not, and yes.

There is no reason they can't lease boxes, or that a 3rd party
couldn't lease the boxes. But why bother? Leasing SUCKS. I notice
there is huge a HUGE marker for leasing VCRs, DVD decks, TVs, etc.
Your local Rent-A-Center can lease you a TiVo if they want.

If they produce a digital cable ready box they'll sell it just like
they sell them today - and just like companies sell VCRs, DVDs, and
TVs. The only reason you lease a cable STB is because it is tied to
the cable provider - if you could take it around with you then buying
is almost always a better option.

For the rest of this, you are pretty much on the money, but this last
statement is far too general, and often untrue. Whether leasing is a better
option depends on a number of factors and on the individual's preferences.


It is like cable broadband. Before DOCSIS you had to lease the cable
modem from the cable company - but once DOCSIS came out you'd be
STUPID to pay for a lease because you can BUY a cable modem fairly
cheaply and use it anywhere. Most cable companies, if they have any
ethics, will offer to lease you one but recommend that you buy your
own.

Well, first of all, in this city, the cable company I use doesn't supply
the broadband access itself, they just supply cable service and the path
back to the broadband provider. The user has the choice of getting their
broadband service from one of several providers including RoadRunner, AOL,
Earthlink, and others. There is also an alternative cable company, but I
don't know whether their broadband service is supplied by 3rd party vendors
or not. In any case, the broadband suppliers don't encourage the user
either way. They offer to supply a leased modem or allow the user to
purchase their own. They will supply wireless or wired modems. Wireless is
of course more expensive. I choose to lease the cable modem but supply my
own firewall including a wireless access point. If the cable modem lease
were more expensive, I might well consider purchasing the modem, but at $3 a
month, it takes a lot of months to pay for the modem. With a purchased
modem, if it fails, I'm stuck. The modem here has been replaced for failure
once and upgraded once in the last 4 years, all for no additional charge.
If the company is honest, then they will only mark up the cost of the modem
over its average useful life by a modest amount. Since the company buys
hundreds of modems wholesale, they can afford to lease the modem to me for a
smaller amount than I would ordinarily pay to a retailer, in which case I am
fairly likely to come out ahead by leasing. If they are greedy, then the
better buy economically would be to purchase. It's a crapshoot, though and
there is a chance my purchased modem will fail 2 days after the warranty
expires, or become obsolete even sooner. It's the same with a cable
terminal or a DVR. Some people are willing to pay a premium for the luxury
of not having to hassle with failures and obsolescence. I could readily
purchase my cable terminal, as well, and I did once, but today I have an HD
Digital Terminal which will be replaced free of charge if it fails or when
new features are added. At $5 a month, again, it would take me a long time
to buy an HD Digital terminal from Scientific Atlanta or Pace.

IMO, the main problem with the leased DVRs is they suck. All the cable
company provided DVRs I have seen are feature poor compared to TiVo. What's
more, since the user doesn't own the leased DVR, hacking it is illegal. I
have added a second hard drive for less than $100 which gives me a 70 hour
TiVo. I have also added a 100M Ethernet card, and installed telnet, ftp,
and TiVo Web access. In addition, I installed TyServer, so I can pull
content straight off the TiVo to my PC and edit the material to suit my
needs. With offline storage on my server, I have effectively extended the
TiVo's record time to several hundred hours.


The only reason to have a cable box is because you can't access
something without one. If CableCARD lets you tune the content, then
you don't use a box and you buy CableCARD devices - there are TVs with
it out now.

Yes, but whether one leases or buys is a much more variable question.
Ownership and its attendant benefits is a good reason, and many people will
hold to it as the prime motivator in this decision, but others will not.
This fact does not make them wrong or stupid.


TiVo most certainly could offer financing at $9/month if they wanted
to, but there is no good business reason to do so unless/until the
cable DVRs can compete on features - they just market their product as
costing a bit more, but doing a LOT more.

What TiVo should do is sell wholesale to the cable providers with a
sublease agreement. That way the user has the choice of getting a TiVo
either way (lease or purchase) through multiple retail channels. It's
win-win-win. TiVo will of course possibly get a smaller margin for their
units sold to the cable company than through their other distribution
channels, but they will corner a vastly greater market share and put their
future production on a much firmer footing. It would be a much more ethical
version of what Microsoft did to corner the market with Windows 95.


Plus they're getting TiVo into homes asa Trojan in DVD devices, and
that is expected to increase. So if you already have TiVo in your
DVD-RW deck, why pay for a cable company DVR at all?

Unfortunately, none of the TiVo based DVD-RW decks I have seen are
acceptable, yet. Every one I have seen has two or more fatal flaws, IMO.
It's been a while since I looked, though.


-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer,
me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men"
508-755-4098

Amen, Willie.

URL:http://www.megazone.org/ URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Eris

On 04 Jun 2004 22:06:35 GMT, (MegaZone)
wrote:

Sean none shaped the electrons to say:
No practical way for Tivo to solve the problem????? How can that

Actually there is - CableCARD. And if you read my post you know their
recent comments on that. Sounds like it is coming.


Sounds like it's coming all right.

In your mouth maybe.


Tivo - Dead Company Walking

Sean