Nothing new under the sun (or TV mast)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33063353

On 10/06/2015 21:04, tony sayer wrote:
In ,
lid scribeth thus



ATC requires accurate positional information in 3D, for all aircraft,
and at all times.

Well from what I see of it its [1] got height, Lat and Long, speed heading
what more do you need?..


Accuracy would be nice for a start. Simply having *values* for all of
those parameters is no guarantee that they're the *right* values.

I've just watched 2 aircraft landing at Birmingham and overshooting the
runway by a good half mile. Doubt whether they *really* did that!

[1] FlightRadar24
--
Cheers,
Roger
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lid wrote:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33063353

You can do it yourself:
http://hackaday.com/2015/06/05/build...-passive-radar
-on-a-shoestring/

--

On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 12:03:21 +0200
Martin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 09:43:17 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
wrote:

Hmm cannot see it of course. I remember a system using higher frequencies
from early digital mobile masts some years back.

The crucial thing is phase and width of signal in those old tests.

Of course if they eventually make all aircraft out of plastic it will be a
challenge to track them in any case.
Brian

I look forward to the plane engine containing no metal parts.

Could - in theory - make all high temperature bits out of ceramics and the
rest out of composites/plastics. Not sure if ceramics are yet up to the job
of being a turbine blade but I wouldn't be surprised if someone isn't working
on it.

--
Spud

On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 12:03:21 +0200, Martin wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 09:43:17 +0100, "Brian-Gaff"
wrote:

Hmm cannot see it of course. I remember a system using higher frequencies
from early digital mobile masts some years back.

The crucial thing is phase and width of signal in those old tests.

Of course if they eventually make all aircraft out of plastic it will be a
challenge to track them in any case.
Brian

I look forward to the plane engine containing no metal parts.

Perhaps it would be possible to make a complete plane with no metal
parts. Let's see, what could be a starting point? Ah yes - birds.

But could communications and navigation devices be made without metal
parts?

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

In article , Roger Mills
scribeth thus
On 10/06/2015 21:04, tony sayer wrote:
In ,
lid scribeth thus



ATC requires accurate positional information in 3D, for all aircraft,
and at all times.

Well from what I see of it its [1] got height, Lat and Long, speed heading
what more do you need?..


Accuracy would be nice for a start. Simply having *values* for all of
those parameters is no guarantee that they're the *right* values.

I've just watched 2 aircraft landing at Birmingham and overshooting the
runway by a good half mile. Doubt whether they *really* did that!

[1] FlightRadar24

Very much doubt it course there will be a slight delay whilst the info
is passed to the ground station and back thru the net. FWIW we hear the
Air ambulance chopper nearby and sure enough its there on Flight radar
right where it sez it should be. I read that a part of Canadian airspace
is now under ADS-B control with other areas to come on stream...
--
Tony Sayer

On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 00:43:09 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote:

wrote
in :

The point is that ATC must reliably track *everything* in the sky in
order to enforce separation. That includes commercial aircraft,
private planes, microlights, gliders, balloons.

No they only have to enforce separation in controlled airspace, where
transponders are mandatory (for the most part anyway). That means they
do not need passive radar there. In uncontrolled airspace, where lots
of aircraft are not equipped with a transponder, ATC has no business.

By 'uncontrolled' I assume you mean Class G.
Anyone flying in Class G can ask for a separation service (and in the
UK at least will generally be given it). Primary radar is required to
provide that.

In article , Martin
scribeth thus
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 18:40:48 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Roger Mills
scribeth thus
On 10/06/2015 21:04, tony sayer wrote:
In ,
lid scribeth thus



ATC requires accurate positional information in 3D, for all aircraft,
and at all times.

Well from what I see of it its [1] got height, Lat and Long, speed heading
what more do you need?..


Accuracy would be nice for a start. Simply having *values* for all of
those parameters is no guarantee that they're the *right* values.

I've just watched 2 aircraft landing at Birmingham and overshooting the
runway by a good half mile. Doubt whether they *really* did that!

[1] FlightRadar24

Very much doubt it course there will be a slight delay whilst the info
is passed to the ground station and back thru the net. FWIW we hear the
Air ambulance chopper nearby and sure enough its there on Flight radar
right where it sez it should be. I read that a part of Canadian airspace
is now under ADS-B control with other areas to come on stream...

ATM we are under the flight path of planes landing at Schiphol Airport. Quite a
lot of civilian planes don't show on Flightradar 24.

Thats because there're not as yet equipped with the necessary
equipment..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Martin
scribeth thus
On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 14:21:11 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Martin
scribeth thus
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 18:40:48 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Roger Mills
scribeth thus
On 10/06/2015 21:04, tony sayer wrote:
In ,
lid scribeth thus



ATC requires accurate positional information in 3D, for all aircraft,
and at all times.

Well from what I see of it its [1] got height, Lat and Long, speed heading
what more do you need?..


Accuracy would be nice for a start. Simply having *values* for all of
those parameters is no guarantee that they're the *right* values.

I've just watched 2 aircraft landing at Birmingham and overshooting the
runway by a good half mile. Doubt whether they *really* did that!

[1] FlightRadar24

Very much doubt it course there will be a slight delay whilst the info
is passed to the ground station and back thru the net. FWIW we hear the
Air ambulance chopper nearby and sure enough its there on Flight radar
right where it sez it should be. I read that a part of Canadian airspace
is now under ADS-B control with other areas to come on stream...

ATM we are under the flight path of planes landing at Schiphol Airport. Quite
a
lot of civilian planes don't show on Flightradar 24.

Thats because there're not as yet equipped with the necessary
equipment..

I doubt that some KLM Fokker 70s are and others aren't. Flightradar24 appears to
lose flights at busy times.


Well its still early days with that system and I do expect that with
time it'll improve. However quite a few aircraft are fitted, I hear one
coming to land or taking off at Cambridge airport and more often than
not sure enough its there on FR 24 including the local EAAA Air
ambulance so royal watchers can see when prince Will we be at;!...
--
Tony Sayer