BBC Have Broken GetIPlayer

In article , Dave
Royal
wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 16:46:31 +0000, Jim Lesurf wrote:

Can anyone say: If you get a webpage like

.../programmes/pid

[snip]

I've been successfully downloading radio programs with commands like
get_iplayer --pid=b04mbm2p --raw

I use raw 'cos it's quicker - especially on a Raspberry Pi. I play it
with VLC

This comes down as BBC_iPlayer_Feeds_-_-_b04mbm2p_default.flv which I
have been renaming manually.

Interesting. I'd been getting flv without using the --raw. Maybe my setup
is odd. It commented that it didn't use ffmpeg or avconv as if warning me
of something it was sniffy about.

Come to think of it, I may not actually have avconv installed on that
laptop. And I installed ffmpeg in its own useland directory to keep it
apart. I *thought* avconv was installed and that get_iplayer wasn't
converting using it because I hadn't asked it to. Since I wanted to examine
the raw files that's what I'd wanted anyway!

I found that Audacious would play the flv's OK.

Hopefully the partly repaired version (due tomorrow) will restore the
file name.
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2014-October/006369.html

OK, thanks for that.

I installed get_iplayer from the Mint repositories (tend to use synaptic).
So the question would now be if I should remove that and do a more direct
install once the changes are in place and known to work. I'll leave this a
few days and see what others get and how things develop. Using the laptop
as this is all 'experiment' from my POV anyway.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Java Jive
wrote:
I've just created a government petition which, if accepted, (well let's
dream for a while) would require all government and government- or
publically-funded institutions to use Open Source software and Open Data
standards wherever reasonably possible, specifically mentioning Ofcom
(no, I've not forgotten the transmitter radiation patterns), and the
BBC, C4 and other recipients of PSB funding.

I think that's Government 'policy' anyway. Just that the gap between theory
and reality seems to have put it into the 'political aspiration'
classification so far as the real public bodies are concerned. i.e. Nice to
say, but no need to actually *do* much.

I suspect we'd have more effect if everyone affected wrote to the BBC Trust
and to 'Feedback'. At least that would air the issue. Who's the chairbody
of the relevant Commons select committee? MPs love getting stacks of mail
about an issue they can bash the BBC over. 8-] The problem is avoiding
sounding like nerds rather than the general public who've lost something
they value enough to make a fuss about.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

You need to tell GIP where your external binaries are, for example:
gip --ffmpeg path --prefs-add
gip --prefs-show

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 18:20:36 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Come to think of it, I may not actually have avconv installed on that
laptop. And I installed ffmpeg in its own useland directory to keep it
apart. I *thought* avconv was installed and that get_iplayer wasn't
converting using it because I hadn't asked it to. Since I wanted to examine
the raw files that's what I'd wanted anyway!
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

Now downloading NQ fine ...

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 17:57:56 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

As it then went straight on the next programme, I can't comment
further for a while.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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On 01/11/14 15:25, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Bernard Peek
wrote:
On 01/11/14 09:40, Jim Lesurf wrote:


Jim, I thought the HDMI output was encrypted for HD material,
preventing recording the picture or sound. Is that wrong?

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find an HDMI box that outputs
something else like spdif.

To the best of my knowledge HDMI encryption hasn't been broken yet so as
yet you cannot get an HD signal out from any HDMI device. There are
ways of getting and recording SD signals though.

To be clear: Are you saying that if I buy a FreeviewHDTV and watch
FreeviewHD the spdif/optical audio output of the TV will not give any
output?

I'm not sure. It's something that you should check before you buy. The
rule is that an HDMI device is not allowed to output a high-quality
signal to any device that is not HDMI compliant. I don't know whether an
optical interface can enforce that. HDMI devices are allowed to output a
degraded signal. That's standard-definition video and two-channel
CD-quality audio.

It's possible that the optical output will only deliver a degraded
signal. You would need to check whether the audio system that you want
to feed it into is HDMI compliant.



The answer to that question does matter as I'm currently planning to buy
such a TV sometime soon!

And is it really the case that no TV or studio engineers can buy or use any
box at all that will rip digital audio from HD HDMI?

If such a device exists it's not sold to ordinary consumers. If it
existed the manufacturer would have to sign a license agreement to get
access to the codes required to get official access.

The device would probably need to use a purpose-built chipset.
Manufacturing that chipset would be risky. First it might result in
criminal charges ibin the USA. Second Intel has said that they will sue
any company that makes such a chipset.

Probably the best you could hope for would be a device with an HDMI
input and multi-channel analogue audio outputs or two-channel digital
audio out.


--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

On 01/11/14 18:06, Java Jive wrote:
I've just created a government petition which, if accepted, (well
let's dream for a while) would require all government and government-
or publically-funded institutions to use Open Source software and Open
Data standards wherever reasonably possible, specifically mentioning
Ofcom (no, I've not forgotten the transmitter radiation patterns), and
the BBC, C4 and other recipients of PSB funding.

Depending on just how the petition is worded HDMI might well qualify as
an open data standard. The government is certainly not going to pass any
legislation that adds to Auntie's running costs.



--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

In article ,
says...

In article , Yellow
wrote:
In article ,
says...

Jim Lesurf wrote:

I also wonder how many people this is going to annoy who have become
used to what has now been broken. Might be more people than the BBC
thought.
[snip]

I like listening to Radio 4 and Radio 4 Extra content in my car and
get_iplayer allows me to snaffle last weeks shows as MP3s and put them
on a memory stick. I then have comedy shows and plays to listen to as I
sit in the usual morning and evening traffic jams.

I pay my TV licence, I am not selling the content to anyone else and
fail to see any harm in my activities and without this method of storing
BBC shows I would simply not be able to listen to them.

My POV is similar although my details differ. Particularly for material
made by the BBC or commissioned by them. We paid for it.

In fact, I fail to see why the BBC won't let me do this directly,
without having to use get_iplayer!

I guess the problem stems from when the BBC want to 'buy' the right to be
able to screen things like feature films made by large media companies.
This is slightly different to the above as the BBC don't own the material
in the same way and are asking in effect "can we just show it once or
twice, please?"

The company lawyers then duly obsess about controlling who can access, how
and when, and also use the ways something might be gasp! copied to try
and hike the price *and* want to see the BBC 'clamp down' on such awful
behaviour by paying customers.

No doubt in particular they'll be wanting to prevent non-UK people watching
since they'll be planning to flog the same material in other countries. As
can be seen from DVD and BD 'regions', they like this trick of divide and
rule.

All this puts the BBC in a stress between trying to get the material to
show at a reasonable cost and allowing their fee paying viewers/listeners
to do so as suits the viewer/listener. I have some sympathy for the BBC
here as they want to keep down procurement costs as well as maximise how
much they can make the results accessible. But in the end, its our fee
money that pays the BBC.

IIRC one small-scale example of another kind was that the 'format' rights
to 'Desert Island Discs' was owned by the family of the original creator.
As a result for some years it and old issues were off limits for the full
iplayer treatment. Since then the BBC I guess have established that their
normal commissioning contract allows them to make stuff they commission
available as suits via 'listen again', etc. But chasing up old rights was
presumably a PITA for the BBC lawyers. In some ways I suspect the
Radio4extra listen again is as much a triumph of BBC lawyers as engineers!

Jim

The whole issue of copyright is a stupid mess and I, as ever, fail to
see why I cannot listen to content I have paid for as and when I choose,
in whatever format I choose.

The law should be changed to allow that above all over considerations
and it should be changed now.

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 20:18:05 +0000, Yellow wrote:

The whole issue of copyright is a stupid mess and I, as ever, fail to
see why I cannot listen to content I have paid for as and when I choose,
in whatever format I choose.

The law should be changed to allow that above all over considerations
and it should be changed now.

Part of the problem, for Radio 3 anyway, is that performing artist
contracts cover the fee paid for the initial broadcast performance and
additional repeat fees that are payable each time a program or work they
perform in is repeated.

* That was certainly the case when I was involved writing Orpheus (the
Radio 3 music planning system), which had tracking initial and repeat
performances woven right through it. However, I admit that was quite a
while back and things could have changed since then.


--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On 01/11/14 20:18, Yellow wrote:

The whole issue of copyright is a stupid mess and I, as ever, fail to
see why I cannot listen to content I have paid for as and when I choose,
in whatever format I choose.

But you can listen to content that you have paid for. But you can only
legally listen to content that you have paid for. But there isn't a law
that forces a content owner to sell what you want at the price you choose.



--
Bernard Peek


In search of cognoscenti (again)

Bernard Peek wrote:
On 01/11/14 15:25, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Bernard Peek
wrote:
On 01/11/14 09:40, Jim Lesurf wrote:


Jim, I thought the HDMI output was encrypted for HD
material, preventing recording the picture or sound. Is that
wrong?

I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find an HDMI box that outputs
something else like spdif.

To the best of my knowledge HDMI encryption hasn't been broken
yet so as yet you cannot get an HD signal out from any HDMI
device. There are ways of getting and recording SD signals
though.

To be clear: Are you saying that if I buy a FreeviewHDTV and watch
FreeviewHD the spdif/optical audio output of the TV will not give
any output?

I'm not sure. It's something that you should check before you buy.
The rule is that an HDMI device is not allowed to output a
high-quality signal to any device that is not HDMI compliant.

Well I sort of know what you are saying WRT current blu-ray players, sat
boxes and TVs that behave according to restrictive specs, but using HDMI
instead of HDCP is misleading.

I have an HDMI device running open software (my PC) connected to my TV
and of course it can output whatever it likes - including full HD. The
same would be true of any camcorder etc.


I don't know whether an optical interface can enforce that. HDMI
devices are allowed to output a degraded signal. That's
standard-definition video and two-channel CD-quality audio.

I think TVs will output from HD receivers OK over s/pdif maybe Dolby
bitstream as well as 2ch PCM - people do connect up their surround amps.

It's possible that the optical output will only deliver a degraded
signal. You would need to check whether the audio system that you
want to feed it into is HDMI compliant.

s/pdif is nothing to do with HDMI and HDMI is not the same as HDCP
anyway (not all HDMI equipment does HDCP)

The answer to that question does matter as I'm currently planning
to buy such a TV sometime soon!

And is it really the case that no TV or studio engineers can buy or
use any box at all that will rip digital audio from HD HDMI?

If such a device exists it's not sold to ordinary consumers. If it
existed the manufacturer would have to sign a license agreement to
get access to the codes required to get official access.

Of course you can buy HDMI capture kit :-)

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/intensity


The device would probably need to use a purpose-built chipset.
Manufacturing that chipset would be risky. First it might result in
criminal charges ibin the USA. Second Intel has said that they will
sue any company that makes such a chipset.

Yea I know you mean HDCP when you say HDMI - there are probably chips
that do it from china who don't give a flying what intel say.

Historically it was possible to strip HDCP as a side effect of choosing
the right HDMI splitter - though they did tend (from what I've read) to
get taken off sale in the US once word got out.

Probably the best you could hope for would be a device with an HDMI
input and multi-channel analogue audio outputs or two-channel digital
audio out.

Me thinks Jim just wants his telly to spit pcm out of s/pdif which it
probably will.