With new TVs, size matters

On 7/1/2013 3:48 PM, TJ wrote:
On 07/01/2013 10:23 AM, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
"TJ" wrote in message
...


Over the years sets continued to improve, and what was once
acceptable was
no longer so - much of the time - but I still found B&W to be acceptable
in a battery portable and a small bedroom TV, and would still be OK with
it need be.

Well try watching snooker then: -

B&W - well apart from the black and white balls they all look the same.
PAL - better, but which is the brown ball?
D[2]-MAC or SD digital - yes now we see what is going on.
HD digital - lovely

oops I forgot NTSC - er I thought the baize was green?...

Typos, too lazy to proofread properly - my post was meant to say "would
still be OK with it if need be."

I stand by that statement - I don't care to watch snooker, even in HD.
In the main, color is nice, but not absolutely necessary most of the
time. As I said, acceptability depends on the eye of the beholder.

The first colorized B&W film I remember seeing was "Miracle On 34th
Street." (Maureen O'Hara, Edmund Gwen, Natalie Wood, 1947) Seeing it in
color was an interesting novelty, but after seeing both versions several
times over the years I can't say color really adds much to the
experience. I watched "Bonanza" on B&W sets the first time around - as I
see the reruns in color I don't enjoy them any more or less than I did
then. Same thing with "Star Trek." And the reruns of B&W TV shows from
the 50's and early 60's are as enjoyable or non-enjoyable now as they
were then - but the lack of color isn't the deciding factor in that.

TJ

The absolute best digital filter is between ones ears. Before HD there
was color. Before color there was black and white. Before black and
white there was radio. Before radio was books. Before books was telling
stories around fire. Before telling stories there was daydreaming. It is
both our blessing and our curse.
Tee(the other )Jay

On 2013-07-01, whosbest54 wrote:
Yes, my 4x3 TVs have a letterboxed picture for 16x9 content. I can accept
that for most of what I watch on those sets. All converters should be able
to allow the aspect ratio to be changed; the best have a 'zoom' button to
allow aspect ratio changes on the fly.

My Digital Stream converters have this feature on the remote. Normally I
have the zoom set to fill the screen, but on some programs that doesn't
seem to work. When I press the "zoom" button on those it just says
"Orthoponic" or some such thing on the screen and the letterbox black
bars remain.

--
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"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Roger Blake" wrote in message
...
On 2013-07-01, whosbest54 wrote:
Yes, my 4x3 TVs have a letterboxed picture for 16x9 content. I can
accept
that for most of what I watch on those sets. All converters should be
able
to allow the aspect ratio to be changed; the best have a 'zoom' button to
allow aspect ratio changes on the fly.

My Digital Stream converters have this feature on the remote. Normally I
have the zoom set to fill the screen, but on some programs that doesn't
seem to work. When I press the "zoom" button on those it just says
"Orthoponic" or some such thing on the screen and the letterbox black
bars remain.

Anamorphic?

On 07/02/2013 08:42 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2013-07-01, whosbest54 wrote:
Yes, my 4x3 TVs have a letterboxed picture for 16x9 content. I can accept
that for most of what I watch on those sets. All converters should be able
to allow the aspect ratio to be changed; the best have a 'zoom' button to
allow aspect ratio changes on the fly.

My Digital Stream converters have this feature on the remote. Normally I
have the zoom set to fill the screen, but on some programs that doesn't
seem to work. When I press the "zoom" button on those it just says
"Orthoponic" or some such thing on the screen and the letterbox black
bars remain.

Neither my Insignia or my Digital Stream converter boxes will allow me
to change the aspect ratio on SD sub-channels. On those channels,
usually broadcasting a 4:3 signal, letterboxing is done by the station,
not by your converter.

TJ

In article , ness says...
On 07/02/2013 08:42 AM, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2013-07-01, whosbest54 wrote:
Yes, my 4x3 TVs have a letterboxed picture for 16x9 content. I can accept
that for most of what I watch on those sets. All converters should be able
to allow the aspect ratio to be changed; the best have a 'zoom' button to
allow aspect ratio changes on the fly.

My Digital Stream converters have this feature on the remote. Normally I
have the zoom set to fill the screen, but on some programs that doesn't
seem to work. When I press the "zoom" button on those it just says
"Orthoponic" or some such thing on the screen and the letterbox black
bars remain.

Neither my Insignia or my Digital Stream converter boxes will allow me
to change the aspect ratio on SD sub-channels. On those channels,
usually broadcasting a 4:3 signal, letterboxing is done by the station,
not by your converter.

Good point. I should have said that I have yet to see a converter that will
change the aspect ratio of a 4x3 SD subchannel. The aspect ratio setting or on
the fly zoom button only works for the 16x9 HD channels. And, unfortunately,
some broadcasters have already or are looking at stretching a 16x9 picture onto
a 4x3 SD subchannel so the picture fills a 16x9 set viewing area at the proper
aspect ratio. All fine and good for a 16x9 set, but it screws everyone with
converters and 4x3 sets.

whosbestf54
--
The flamewars are over...if you want it.

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"TJ" wrote in message
...

snip

The first colorized B&W film I remember seeing was "Miracle On 34th
Street." (Maureen O'Hara, Edmund Gwen, Natalie Wood, 1947) Seeing it in
color was an interesting novelty, but after seeing both versions several
times over the years I can't say color really adds much to the experience.
I watched "Bonanza" on B&W sets the first time around - as I see the
reruns in color I don't enjoy them any more or less than I did then. Same
thing with "Star Trek." And the reruns of B&W TV shows from the 50's and
early 60's are as enjoyable or non-enjoyable now as they were then - but
the lack of color isn't the deciding factor in that.

My first color set was a 14-inch "portable." It weighed a lot, but it had a
handle on top of the case. Therefore, portable.

In 1968, I think color TV's had n-o-t-h-i-n-g that was automatic beyond
degaussing but I was able to tune my set for very nice pictures with a
simple routine:
First, rotating the fine-tuning ring into the "worms," the squigly pattern
caused by too much sound carrier ... and then just back out of the worms.
Second, turning the Color control down all the way and adjusting Brightness
and Contrast for a nice B&W picture. (I believe if a set cannot produce a
nice B&W picture, it cannot produce a nice color picture.)
Third, turning the Color control up too much and adjusting the Tint to make
the faces be a hideous orange.
Fourth, turning the Color control back down until faces looked natural.

This routine usually took about fifteen seconds -- not unreasonable.

The first set I bought that had "automatic everything" was a 35-inch Sony in
1995. It had a synthesized tuner, so no Fine Tune. I set the controls for
Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness, Color and Tint for my preferences during
the first two days and never touched them again until the set was quite old
and I tried to improve its fast-fading picture.

"Sal"

"Roger Blake" wrote in message
...

My Digital Stream converters have this feature on the remote. Normally I
have the zoom set to fill the screen, but on some programs that doesn't
seem to work. When I press the "zoom" button on those it just says
"Orthoponic" or some such thing on the screen and the letterbox black
bars remain.

I miss my Digital Stream box. In the fall of 2011, I loaned it to the son
of some people I know down the street. I haven't seen it or the kid since.
His parents claim they haven't seen him either. *sigh*

Old slogan: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

On 7/1/13 PDT 7:23 AM, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Well try watching snooker then: -

B&W - well apart from the black and white balls they all look the same.
PAL - better, but which is the brown ball?
D[2]-MAC or SD digital - yes now we see what is going on.
HD digital - lovely

oops I forgot NTSC - er I thought the baize was green?...

Heh. I recall how jealous I was of my Brit friends with many more lines
of definition! Back when Never Twice the Same Color was the only choice
in the States.

How widespread is HD TV in GB now? (Approx. I'd guess over half the US
has HD now that is in use.)

In article John McWilliams writes:

Heh. I recall how jealous I was of my Brit friends with many more lines
of definition! Back when Never Twice the Same Color was the only choice
in the States.

Having watched PAL when visiting the UK, I know why they call it
Picture's Always Lousy. And that was ignoring the flicker and low
temporal resolution (both of which were clearly visible).

After stable solid state equipment became available in the early
1970's, the PAL phase error cancellation was no longer an advantage.
All of my equipment was chosen to be good enough to be "set it and
forget it". Then, color variation was a matter of source lighting,
which affects all color systems.

Alan

On 28/07/2013 16:54, John McWilliams wrote:
On 7/1/13 PDT 7:23 AM, R. Mark Clayton wrote:

Well try watching snooker then: -

B&W - well apart from the black and white balls they all look the same.
PAL - better, but which is the brown ball?
D[2]-MAC or SD digital - yes now we see what is going on.
HD digital - lovely

oops I forgot NTSC - er I thought the baize was green?...

Heh. I recall how jealous I was of my Brit friends with many more lines
of definition! Back when Never Twice the Same Color was the only choice
in the States.

How widespread is HD TV in GB now? (Approx. I'd guess over half the US
has HD now that is in use.)




there's a lot on pay tv but only 4 channels through an aerial.
hd televisions have been on sale here for years but only in the last
couple have they had hd tuners inside - some were sold as HD ready with
just component inputs - not even HDMI.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.