Are they sending filters to everyone?

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or so -
nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter and
I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as people
will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit the filter,
or not know how to fit it.

--
Max Demian

In article ,
"Max Demian" wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or so -
nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter and
I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as people
will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit the filter,
or not know how to fit it.

I guess it varies from area to area. We got a postcard telling us to
contact them if we get problems and ask for one.

--
Sara

cats cats cats cats cats

In article , Max Demian
wrote:
I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or
so - nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

Which I take to mean indicates you should be in one of the 'easy case'
areas.

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter
and I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as
people will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit
the filter, or not know how to fit it.

What I've read so far seems ambiguous/unclear. But my impression is that
they will send them 'automatically' to dwellings they judge will be 'likely
to need them'. (All in their judgement on a basis whose details remain
unclear in public so far as I can tell. In effect, they mark their own
homework at each stage.)

The snag is that they would not give me any details of how they assess or
model this. 'Commercial in confidence' is the 'reason' I was given.

Mind you, they also said that about details they then did state publically
at the CAI trde show at the start of May! So I can only assume they judge
this in terms of how critical or demanding (or needed to be 'on side' by
AT800) others may be.

Apparently the early pilots were all at a max power of 58dBm, *not* the max
in-use level allowed of 64dBm - all per base channel. And they also
selected/avoided the hardest cases. Hard to say more because of lack of
info.

I'm curious about the filter they sent to you. Is it essentially just a box
and lead with a part number and AT800 stamp? Or do they give any spec at
all?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or so -
nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter and
I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as people
will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit the filter,
or not know how to fit it.

Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.

In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all
my Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz
or so - nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in
Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the
filter and I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as
people will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit
the filter, or not know how to fit it.

Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.


Alternatively, is Max near to what will become a 4G base station? If so,
then at800 may be assuming it is likely to overpower his receiver
regardless of what muxs he picks up.

The ch59/60 cases are only 'harder' in the sense that the filters have to
provide steeper cut with the pass and reject bands closer together. But for
both ch59/60 and other cases the real problem is avoiding 4G overloading
the RX whilst letting though the wanted DVB.

I suspect that - if anything - at800 will focus on people near to base
stations. The problem then being what 'free' filter might work if the
people are wanting ch59/60...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:38:24 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all
my Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz
or so - nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in
Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the
filter and I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as
people will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit
the filter, or not know how to fit it.

Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.


Alternatively, is Max near to what will become a 4G base station? If so,
then at800 may be assuming it is likely to overpower his receiver
regardless of what muxs he picks up.

It's a reasonable assumption that viewers in areas with a low signal
strength like Bucks, even on low channels, are more likely to be
blocked by 4G.
But at800's web site seems to consider only high channel areas.

From the lack of general press complaints "4G swallowed my TV" (c)
Daily Mail, about I do suspect that they have largely got away with
the gamble.

The ch59/60 cases are only 'harder' in the sense that the filters have to
provide steeper cut with the pass and reject bands closer together. But for
both ch59/60 and other cases the real problem is avoiding 4G overloading
the RX whilst letting though the wanted DVB.

I suspect that - if anything - at800 will focus on people near to base
stations. The problem then being what 'free' filter might work if the
people are wanting ch59/60...

Slainte,

Jim

In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jun 2013 17:38:24 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"


Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.


Alternatively, is Max near to what will become a 4G base station? If
so, then at800 may be assuming it is likely to overpower his receiver
regardless of what muxs he picks up.

It's a reasonable assumption that viewers in areas with a low signal
strength like Bucks, even on low channels, are more likely to be blocked
by 4G.

It will depend on the details of what is meant by 'low signal', etc.

Bear in mind that, when tested, the pattern of behaviour of many RXs has
been that they can ignore *much* higher 4G/DVB ratios when both are modest
or low. The relative ability to ignore 4G declines when both are stronger.

But at800's web site seems to consider only high channel areas.

Not sure what you mean TBH. Their initial *tests* seemed to shy away from
cases where both ch59/60 were in use *and* they transmitted power on the 4G
band close to ch60.

But the difficulties are 'layered'. Stage one is: Does someone get a
problem if they have no LTE filter? if the answer is "yes" then we get...

Stage two: Is there a cheap/free filter they can easily fit that fixes the
problem so they can go on viewing all the muxes as before?

It will be much easier (i.e. cheap filter) to deal with a given 4G/DVB
ratio when the frequencies are spaced well apart, than when they are packed
together.

Personally, I'm happy enough with the principle of a 'free filters for all'
*IF* those filters do, indeed, solve all the problems. The snag is the -
still opaque - question of how many people will find such a filter *isn't*
a solution.[1]

If you live where you're getting low-band DVB then a filter to pass that
and reject 4G by, say, 25dB *should* be easy enough to obtain. But not so
easy for ch59/60 reception.


From the lack of general press complaints "4G swallowed my TV" (c) Daily
Mail, about I do suspect that they have largely got away with the gamble.

So far... but we are still really awaiting the results of any genuinely
hard cases. The early pilots used low 4G powers and carefully selected
bands, etc.

I note that even in the 'Brighton' test the early comments were about using
the close 4G band *or* the far pair. Not all of them at full belt together.
Will the telcos be that polite in real practice, I wonder?...

The difficulty in the meantime is getting info which can be used to check
the claims. Must admit I do wonder about statements about "no" problems.
That does seem a little odd to me. Sort of an H2G2 "golden age" assessment,
eh?... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] That said, I'm intrigued by the televes 'micro cavity' filter.
Interested in getting hold of one and testing/measuring it. Anyone know if
these are on sale yet or are still 'vapourware'?...

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In message ,
lid writes
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or so -
nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter and
I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as people
will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit the filter,
or not know how to fit it.

Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.

I think that all the analogue relays off Crystal Palace were in Band 5 -
so I suspect that all the digitals are too (but haven't checked). If Max
is not receiving CP directly, he may well need a filter.
--
Ian

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Max Demian
wrote:
I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all my
Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz or
so - nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in Buckinghamshire.)

Which I take to mean indicates you should be in one of the 'easy case'
areas.

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the filter
and I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as
people will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit
the filter, or not know how to fit it.

What I've read so far seems ambiguous/unclear. But my impression is that
they will send them 'automatically' to dwellings they judge will be
'likely
to need them'. (All in their judgement on a basis whose details remain
unclear in public so far as I can tell. In effect, they mark their own
homework at each stage.)

The snag is that they would not give me any details of how they assess or
model this. 'Commercial in confidence' is the 'reason' I was given.

Mind you, they also said that about details they then did state publically
at the CAI trde show at the start of May! So I can only assume they judge
this in terms of how critical or demanding (or needed to be 'on side' by
AT800) others may be.

Apparently the early pilots were all at a max power of 58dBm, *not* the
max
in-use level allowed of 64dBm - all per base channel. And they also
selected/avoided the hardest cases. Hard to say more because of lack of
info.

I'm curious about the filter they sent to you. Is it essentially just a
box
and lead with a part number and AT800 stamp? Or do they give any spec at
all?

There's nothing technical in the leaflet. The filter has "404401 LTE/4G
FILTER CONSUMER CHANNEL 59" and some other numbers and QR codes.

--
Max Demian

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:42:28 +0100, "Max Demian"
wrote:

I've just received an at800 filter through the door, though I get all
my Freeview TV from Crystal Palace - highest UHF channel 30 = 550 MHz
or so - nowhere near the 800 MHz used by 4G. (I live in
Buckinghamshire.)

I've tried plugging end A of the short cable into socket A of the
filter and I think I'll need a hammer.

I suppose they are sending them out on some kind of 'precautionary
principle' but I think they will just make trouble for themselves as
people will either do nothing, or worry about whether they need to fit
the filter, or not know how to fit it.

Are you near to a relay using the high channels, that at800 think you
might be using? e.g. Gt Missenden.

The only station apart from CP is Hannington, and hardly anyone uses that.

Alternatively, is Max near to what will become a 4G base station? If so,
then at800 may be assuming it is likely to overpower his receiver
regardless of what muxs he picks up.

Well there aren't any cellphone base stations anywhere near me currently.

--
Max Demian