Very basic cabling/distribution advice needed please

OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg

What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it)
the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is
my desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I
wanted the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now
via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a
fortune to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the
engineer has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I
know 2.4Ghz is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x
3 plus, cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old
O2 wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

TIA

Jim

In article ,
Jim wrote:
OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg

What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it)
the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is
my desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I
wanted the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now
via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a
fortune to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the
engineer has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I
know 2.4Ghz is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x
3 plus, cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old
O2 wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

There could be a number of problems, so it's not going to be easy to give
an instant answer. However, i suspect that your second amplifier (old
labgear TV booster) might be one of them. I don't see the need for it, and
it might well be overloading.

First: take each tv set in turn to the incoming socket and feed it directly
- then tune it. Then try each set simply via the lenght of cable you've
already got in place. Does it work then? That will eliminate the cable.
If you get problems, yes, replace the cable with some decent stuff. You
don't mention the lengths, but I can't imagine the runs being very long.

You'd be better off getting a 4 outlet amplifier rather than having one
following another.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On 30/12/2012 18:19, Jim wrote:
OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg


What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it)
the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is
my desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I
wanted the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now
via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a
fortune to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the
engineer has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I
know 2.4Ghz is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x
3 plus, cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old
O2 wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

TIA

Jim


Guess some idea of coax length would have been handy, sorry about that.
So from
UHF socket to TV is 120 inches
TV (in living room) to my desk where 10" TV is located is 260 inches.
Desk to bedroom is 440 inches.

Having wrote these down and seeing them in black and white I'm guessing
some form of wireless would be good from desk to bedroom but that would
be right on top of my router and cordless phone, oh well hope the
measurements help some what.

Jim

"Jim" wrote in message
m...
OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me as
I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg

What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it) the
socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the socket
to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the signal so
one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure which one, but
it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is my
desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I wanted
the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now via cheap
white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a fortune
to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the engineer
has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I know 2.4Ghz
is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x 3 plus,
cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old O2
wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

TIA

Jim


Well the main thing is that they should not be daisy chained.

The sequence should be: -

W aerial
|
V
wall socket
|
TV amp [optional see text]
|
toys PVR, DVD, $ky box etc.
|
4 way splitter
| | | |
TV TV TV TV

The four way splitter should be a reactive one (e.g. from Maplin £10).

If you do not want to view the output of your boxes elsewhere then put them
after the splitter and in any event use HDMI, component or SCARTs to get the
output into your main TV.

Test each TV / box individually on the incoming UHF to see they will search
correctly.

If the divided signal is insufficient so they won't work after the splitter,
buy a cheap UHF amp and insert it before any boxes.

If you are replacing cable(s) use CT100 or similar and keep the runs short
and the joins to an absolute minimum.

As it happens the arrangement in my flat is similar. We are ~30km from
Winter Hill. The feed from the aerial goes to a [landlord's] six way amp
for the 6 flats and then in my flat the arrangement is as above without the
optional amp. In the smaller block the landlord's splitter is passive.
Works fine.


If you are not using the analogue signal in you main TV, then you can use
two two way splitters. One signal (-3dB) from the first can go to your
weakest device (probably the Freeview HD TV) and the other to the splitter
for the other two (-6dB) and no aerial goes into the main TV.


How far are you from Crystal Palace?

"Jim" wrote in message
m...
OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me as
I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg

snip

You need to distribute from the single socket you have, amplifing there and
then running a seperate cable to each device.
[Charles has already mentioned this.]

Get a decent 4 port (or more if you expect to add more devices) powered
amplifier/splitter and site it as close to the incoming socket as possible.

Then run independant good quality co-ax leads to each device.

That is how a simple distribution system is set up.
Bill will probably recommend the best device for the amplifier/splitter.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:19:31 +0000, Jim wrote:

OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg

What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it)
the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is
my desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I
wanted the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now
via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a
fortune to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the
engineer has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I
know 2.4Ghz is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x
3 plus, cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old
O2 wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

TIA

Jim


As Charles as said you need to test each TV at the main socket with
just a short flylead.

Usually, if the signal is poor at the outlet plate no amount of
amplification after it will improve matters.

The other RF devices you mention are unlikely to cause DTT
interference, and it's simple to eliminate them as the cause by
switching them off while you rescan.



--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 18:48:23 +0000, Jim wrote:

On 30/12/2012 18:19, Jim wrote:
OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the
same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a
single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg


What I want to be able to do is use that single socket and feed 3 other
TV's in the following order (which I presume is the best way to do it)
the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).
Then from that splitter I run some cheap White plastic coated coax to my
desk which is in the kitchen (my flat is the kind where living room and
kitchen dining room are all in one, so where dining table should be is
my desk) on my desk I have one of those 10" Nikkai LCD TV's, then I
wanted the TV signal fed into my bedroom which again is done right now
via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg

which then goes into free-view box then TV.
So that is how it's set up now but I'm sure something is wrong somewhere
as I retuned my 10" the other day and it only found a few channels then
when I set up Samsung in the bedroom it failed to find any HD channels
(it's a Samsung UE32ES5500), now I'm presuming that the 10" and 32" were
not able to find all channels due to poor signal, so I have come to the
decision I need to look into a better way of rewiring the flat for TV
signals.

I don't know if I should just replace the coax with some decent stuff or
look at some form of wireless distribution system, I don't have a
fortune to spend maybe £50-£100.

I have no access to the aerial itself of the distribution box the
engineer has put in I can only work on things from "within" my flat, I
know 2.4Ghz is busy to say the least I have cordless Panasonic phones x
3 plus, cordless headphones but these are only on 860 odd Mhz and an old
O2 wireless router v4.

I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in case
that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.

TIA

Jim


Guess some idea of coax length would have been handy, sorry about that.
So from
UHF socket to TV is 120 inches
TV (in living room) to my desk where 10" TV is located is 260 inches.
Desk to bedroom is 440 inches.

Having wrote these down and seeing them in black and white I'm guessing
some form of wireless would be good from desk to bedroom but that would
be right on top of my router and cordless phone, oh well hope the
measurements help some what.

Jim

Wirless TV senders is the spawn of Satin, use cable, not cheap cable
but "Satellite grade" CT100 or equiv.




--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Jim wrote:
[ Points in Charles' reply also noted. }

OK I'll be upfront I know very little about this so please bear with me
as I'm well out of my comfort zone here.

I live in a small block of 4 flats and we all get our TV signal from the

With only four flats, there is a significant risk that the installation
has been done on the cheap. Do you have a copy of the lease. It may
give some hints as to whether the leaseholder has to pay for power to a
distribution amplifier, which I would expect to be present.

same external aerial and gets it's feed from Crystal Palace, the cable
comes in the roof and is then feed to all four flats where we have a

If modern practice is followed, there will be four separate cables, from
the head end (not the aerial). Otherwise, the sockets need to be
special ones, which have separate cable inputs and outputs. The worst
case scenario is that the sockets have been simply wired in parallel.

single UHF TV socket, something like this
http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en...ite-28245n.jpg



via cheap white plastic coated coax, which then goes into an old labgear
TV booster

If amplification is needed it really needs to be done before any of the
splitting. Do any of the TV's have diagnostic modes which show signal
strength. That may give a clue as to whether the signal is already
marginal at the socket, and whether its strength degrades as you get
further into the network. With cheap splitters, the system may behave
differently with and without a set present, so you may not be able to
get a measurement of the true situation at every set.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5...4ds1bqls4k.jpg


I will post a picture of the TV antenna itself on Monday, just in
case that makes any difference, any and all advice is welcome.


Without precise details of your location, and the distribution network
behind it, I don't think the picture of the antenna will tell a lot
(unless it is falling to pieces).

If there is a problem in the distribution system, unless the whole block
is social housing, or it is very new, it is unlikely that you will get
the leaseholders to agree to fix it.

the socket is in the living room so I will of course run cable from the
socket to the TV then I use a very cheap Argos splitter to split the
signal so one goes to the TV (well sky or free-view box not too sure
which one, but it ends up in the TV somehow).

Jim, in the bit of your OP I have quoted above, you mention a Sky box.
Does this mean you have your own satellite dish? I presume this is so
because the distribution system doesn't carry satellite.

If so, then there are other suggestions we could make that don't
involve the aerial.



--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Jim wrote:


Guess some idea of coax length would have been handy, sorry about that.
So from
UHF socket to TV is 120 inches
TV (in living room) to my desk where 10" TV is located is 260 inches.
Desk to bedroom is 440 inches.


With good quality cable (CT100) you will lose a little over half the
signal power (~4dB) in the cable. Cheap, daisy chained, splitters will
reduce the signal power by a further factor of, at least, 16. The
Maplin 4 way F splitter will reduce it by a factor of about 9. Mark's
3dB, for a two way splitter, is a bit optimistic (hypothetical ideal
splitter). The real device figures quoted by Maplin are about 4dB.