Using mobile phone as an internet radio

On Oct 10, 11:50*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

wrote:
Hi SEB. *Well I sent an email to Don klipstein on this topic. *And
have permission to copy his reply.
from Don K. below
2: *In incandescent traffic signals, the bulbs for yellow last
longer than for red and green. *So even after being switched on
and off about a million times, on-time is still a significant
factor in life expectancy.

That means for my proposed test comparing a 50% duty cycle flashing
light bulb, with one that is on continuously, the continuous light
bulb will burn out first. *That's the opposite of what I saw with the
theater marquee bulbs. *Now, I'm really tempted to run the experiment.

Experiments can be very useful.
I'd worry most about how you turn on the bulbs.
Maybe just some simple relays?

1,000 hours isn't all that long. (or are you going to over-voltage
the bulbs?)
I guess I'd want at least 10 bulbs in each group. Say 60 watts.....
1200 kW-hrs.

That's looking like more money than I'd want to spend on the
electricity.

George H.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:13:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
wrote:

Hi SEB. Well I sent an email to Don klipstein on this topic. And
have permission to copy his reply.
from Don K. below

2: In incandescent traffic signals, the bulbs for yellow last
longer than for red and green. So even after being switched on
and off about a million times, on-time is still a significant
factor in life expectancy.

That means for my proposed test comparing a 50% duty cycle flashing
light bulb, with one that is on continuously, the continuous light
bulb will burn out first. That's the opposite of what I saw with the
theater marquee bulbs. Now, I'm really tempted to run the experiment.


Was there any vibration in that theater marquee?

That's a good point. Were there any bulbs continuously lit on the marquee to
use as a reference?

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:13:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
wrote:

Hi SEB. Well I sent an email to Don klipstein on this topic. And
have permission to copy his reply.
from Don K. below

2: In incandescent traffic signals, the bulbs for yellow last
longer than for red and green. So even after being switched on
and off about a million times, on-time is still a significant
factor in life expectancy.

That means for my proposed test comparing a 50% duty cycle flashing
light bulb, with one that is on continuously, the continuous light
bulb will burn out first. That's the opposite of what I saw with the
theater marquee bulbs. Now, I'm really tempted to run the experiment.

Was there any vibration in that theater marquee?

Nope unless you count the movie audio pumped in from the theater
section as vibration.

The lobby and foyer lights were probably on a different circuit from
the marquee lights, which may have had different voltages, glitches,
surges, etc. I suspect that there were also some switching
transcients on the marquee side. That was 45 years ago, and I didn't
think to measure any of that. I just kept replacing light bulbs.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 09:47:40 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 03:13:01 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
wrote:

Hi SEB. Well I sent an email to Don klipstein on this topic. And
have permission to copy his reply.
from Don K. below

2: In incandescent traffic signals, the bulbs for yellow last
longer than for red and green. So even after being switched on
and off about a million times, on-time is still a significant
factor in life expectancy.

That means for my proposed test comparing a 50% duty cycle flashing
light bulb, with one that is on continuously, the continuous light
bulb will burn out first. That's the opposite of what I saw with the
theater marquee bulbs. Now, I'm really tempted to run the experiment.

Was there any vibration in that theater marquee?

Nope unless you count the movie audio pumped in from the theater
section as vibration.

The lobby and foyer lights were probably on a different circuit from
the marquee lights, which may have had different voltages, glitches,
surges, etc. I suspect that there were also some switching
transcients on the marquee side. That was 45 years ago, and I didn't
think to measure any of that. I just kept replacing light bulbs.

I have a yet another guess(tm). I think the failures may have been
due to heating.

The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally. I recall about 15-20 rows of lights. The
backing was some type of sheet metal and plywood sandwich possibly to
prevent the heat from the lights from setting fire to the building.
Near the top was about a 2ft overhang, which was mostly decorative,
but was also was used to hang flags and announcements. The rising hot
air from the lower lamps would accumulate under the overhand and
thoroughly heat the top rows of lights. Unfortunately, I didn't
notice which rows required the most lamp replacements.

One evening, I was volunteered to replace two lamps that had burned
out when the marquee was run for some occasion. I recall that the
sheet metal or plywood backing was warm near the bottom, but rather
hot near the top. This was about 10 minutes after the marquee was
turned off so that I could replace the bulbs. (That was also with a
line of people standing under the ladder, which was not very safe).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article ,
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally.

Vertical mounting for a GLS lamp seems to give a better life than other
orientations. A rough service type may have had a better life in this
application.

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:55:15 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
wrote:

On Oct 10, 11:50*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Oct 2012 06:27:05 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

wrote:
Hi SEB. *Well I sent an email to Don klipstein on this topic. *And
have permission to copy his reply.
from Don K. below
2: *In incandescent traffic signals, the bulbs for yellow last
longer than for red and green. *So even after being switched on
and off about a million times, on-time is still a significant
factor in life expectancy.

That means for my proposed test comparing a 50% duty cycle flashing
light bulb, with one that is on continuously, the continuous light
bulb will burn out first. *That's the opposite of what I saw with the
theater marquee bulbs. *Now, I'm really tempted to run the experiment.

Experiments can be very useful.

Yep. However, it's more fun to predict, speculate, guess, reverse
engineer, and maybe calculate.

I'd worry most about how you turn on the bulbs.
Maybe just some simple relays?

No. I didn't want to life test the relay contacts, just the light
bulbs. I have plenty of solid state switches that will suffice. The
reason I wanted two was to make sure the voltage drop across the
switch was the same for both the flashing and continuous bulbs.

1,000 hours isn't all that long. (or are you going to over-voltage
the bulbs?)
I guess I'd want at least 10 bulbs in each group. Say 60 watts.....
1200 kW-hrs.

Much as I would like to use a rack of bulbs,
http://pinterest.com/pin/172122016978363241/
http://pinterest.com/pin/172122016978761590/
I think two bulbs will suffice for a start. The plan of the moment is
to use a variac to boost the voltage from 120VAC to about 135VAC,
which should reduce the 1000 hr life to a more tolerable 112 hrs.
Cut-n-paste from a previous posting:

Instead, an accelerated life test can be done with higher than normal
voltages.
http://www.welchallyn.com/documents/Lighting/OEM_Halogen_Lighting/MC3544HPX_Catalog_2_11_09.pdf
For halogen bulbs, they use:
Life = (Vdesign / Vapplied)^12.0 * Life at design voltage
For a 1000 hr lamp running at 120% of the rated voltage, the life
might be:
life = (1/1.2)^12 * 1000 = 112 hrs
which is more reasonable.

That's looking like more money than I'd want to spend on the
electricity.

I'm trying to determine where to run the test. I don't want a
flashing bulb in my bedroom. I also don't want to run an unattended
rack of bulbs in the office which could become a fire hazard. Methinks
just 2 bulbs and a 3-4 day accelerated test will be sufficient.

George H.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 10/11/2012 07:18 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:
The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally.

Vertical mounting for a GLS lamp seems to give a better life than other
orientations. A rough service type may have had a better life in this
application.


The filament temperature goes up more slowly than the ambient, since
it's radiatively cooled, but a rise of, say, 50 degrees would probably
have a significant effect on bulb life.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 10/11/2012 07:18 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:
The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally.

Vertical mounting for a GLS lamp seems to give a better life than other
orientations. A rough service type may have had a better life in this
application.


The filament temperature goes up more slowly than the ambient, since
it's radiatively cooled, but a rise of, say, 50 degrees would probably
have a significant effect on bulb life.


The projector bulbs in the old RCA TP66 film chain were mounted in a
vertical line. If you used the bottom lamp, and let it switch the to
spare on top, they had a short life of a little over 20 hours. If you
ran the top lamp, with the spare at the bottom, the life was over five
times longer. The projector used a motorized track, with a relay in
series with the filament. When the filament opened, the relay dropped
out and turned on the motor. In either position, it would run to look
for the other bulb when the one in use failed. I would pull the bad
lamp and move the good lamp to the top at the next film change, then put
the new lamp in the bottom socket. I averaged over 130 hours per lamp,
that way.

On 10/12/2012 01:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 10/11/2012 07:18 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:
The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally.

Vertical mounting for a GLS lamp seems to give a better life than other
orientations. A rough service type may have had a better life in this
application.


The filament temperature goes up more slowly than the ambient, since
it's radiatively cooled, but a rise of, say, 50 degrees would probably
have a significant effect on bulb life.


The projector bulbs in the old RCA TP66 film chain were mounted in a
vertical line. If you used the bottom lamp, and let it switch the to
spare on top, they had a short life of a little over 20 hours. If you
ran the top lamp, with the spare at the bottom, the life was over five
times longer. The projector used a motorized track, with a relay in
series with the filament. When the filament opened, the relay dropped
out and turned on the motor. In either position, it would run to look
for the other bulb when the one in use failed. I would pull the bad
lamp and move the good lamp to the top at the next film change, then put
the new lamp in the bottom socket. I averaged over 130 hours per lamp,
that way.

That's interesting--just storing the bulb at higher temperature reduced
its life that badly, even if it wasn't energized? The only mechanism I
can think of for that is that they leaked and let oxygen in. Otherwise
glass and metal should be unaffected by ~100 C temperatures. But then
they should leak even worse when energized. Another mystery, Scoob.

Hot tungsten doesn't have a very high emissivity in the IR, so
probably the filament temperature is more sensitive to ambient
temperature than one would expect from the T**4 dependence from Stefan's
law for black bodies. Raising the temperature by 1 degree at 3000 K
makes the radiation go up by 1000 times more than at 300 K, so the
filament regulates its own temperature quite closely if it's really a
black body.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 10/12/2012 01:38 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 10/11/2012 07:18 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Jeff wrote:
The lobby and foyer lights were mounted on the ceiling, pointing down.
One would think that there would be plenty of hot air accumulating
near the ceiling, but that wasn't the case. That's where the fan
ducts were located which helped to cool the lights. Few of those
lights ever burned out.

The marquee lamps were mounted on a vertical structure, with the lamps
pointed horizontally.

Vertical mounting for a GLS lamp seems to give a better life than other
orientations. A rough service type may have had a better life in this
application.


The filament temperature goes up more slowly than the ambient, since
it's radiatively cooled, but a rise of, say, 50 degrees would probably
have a significant effect on bulb life.


The projector bulbs in the old RCA TP66 film chain were mounted in a
vertical line. If you used the bottom lamp, and let it switch the to
spare on top, they had a short life of a little over 20 hours. If you
ran the top lamp, with the spare at the bottom, the life was over five
times longer. The projector used a motorized track, with a relay in
series with the filament. When the filament opened, the relay dropped
out and turned on the motor. In either position, it would run to look
for the other bulb when the one in use failed. I would pull the bad
lamp and move the good lamp to the top at the next film change, then put
the new lamp in the bottom socket. I averaged over 130 hours per lamp,
that way.

That's interesting--just storing the bulb at higher temperature reduced
its life that badly, even if it wasn't energized? The only mechanism I
can think of for that is that they leaked and let oxygen in. Otherwise
glass and metal should be unaffected by ~100 C temperatures. But then
they should leak even worse when energized. Another mystery, Scoob.

Hot tungsten doesn't have a very high emissivity in the IR, so
probably the filament temperature is more sensitive to ambient
temperature than one would expect from the T**4 dependence from Stefan's
law for black bodies. Raising the temperature by 1 degree at 3000 K
makes the radiation go up by 1000 times more than at 300 K, so the
filament regulates its own temperature quite closely if it's really a
black body.


The glass on these projection lamps was usually distorted, by the
time they failed.