TOT moorland fires and turbines

J G Miller wrote:

If the moon moves just ten percent farther, it will
cause unbelievable disaster for our planet

I don't believe it.

Bill

In article , Bill Wright wrote:
J G Miller wrote:

If the moon moves just ten percent farther, it will
cause unbelievable disaster for our planet

I don't believe it.

Bill

Well, if it's unbelievable and you don't believe it, he must be telling
the truth...

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

Bill Wright wrote:

J G Miller wrote:

If the moon moves just ten percent farther, it will
cause unbelievable disaster for our planet

I don't believe it.

I dunno about "unbelievable disaster", but it would be a major climate
change at the minimum. I'd heard about it on some science programme on
the TV.

Checking Wikipedia's axial tilt article, I see that somebody's written:

The relatively small range for the Earth is due to the stabilizing
influence of the Moon, but it will not remain so. According to W.R. Ward,
the orbit of the Moon (which is continuously increasing due to tidal
effects) will have gone from the current 60 to approximately 66.5 Earth
radii in about 1.5 billion years. Once this occurs, a resonance from
planetary effects will follow, causing swings of the obliquity between 22°
and 38°. Further, in approximately 2 billion years, when the Moon reaches
a distance of 68 Earth radii, another resonance will cause even greater
oscillations, between 27° and 60°. This would have extreme effects on
climate.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:25:38 +0100, Dave Farrance wrote:

Bill Wright wrote:

[snip]

Checking Wikipedia's axial tilt article, I see that somebody's written:

The relatively small range for the Earth is due to the stabilizing
influence of the Moon, but it will not remain so. According to W.R.
Ward, the orbit of the Moon (which is continuously increasing due to
tidal effects) will have gone from the current 60 to approximately 66.5
Earth radii in about 1.5 billion years. Once this occurs, a resonance
from planetary effects will follow, causing swings of the obliquity
between 22° and 38°. Further, in approximately 2 billion years, when the
Moon reaches a distance of 68 Earth radii, another resonance will cause
even greater oscillations, between 27° and 60°. This would have extreme
effects on climate.

Just to cheer us all up, Wikipedia's article on the sun remarks that its
radiation increases by about 10% per billion years and that this is
likely to cause the oceans to boil and extinguish all life before any of
these lunar effects happen.


--
Steve Hayes, South Wales, UK -- remove colours from address

On Wednesday, June 22nd, 2011 at 09:29:29h +0000, Steve Hayes wrote:

Just to cheer us all up, Wikipedia's article on the sun remarks that its
radiation increases by about 10% per billion years and that this is
likely to cause the oceans to boil and extinguish all life before any of
these lunar effects happen.

Do you think NASA will have had its budget increase by then to further
manned space exploration?

On 22/06/2011 00:25, Dave Farrance wrote:
Bill wrote:

J G Miller wrote:

If the moon moves just ten percent farther, it will
cause unbelievable disaster for our planet

I don't believe it.

I dunno about "unbelievable disaster", but it would be a major climate
change at the minimum. I'd heard about it on some science programme on
the TV.

Checking Wikipedia's axial tilt article, I see that somebody's written:

The relatively small range for the Earth is due to the stabilizing
influence of the Moon, but it will not remain so. According to W.R. Ward,
the orbit of the Moon (which is continuously increasing due to tidal
effects) will have gone from the current 60 to approximately 66.5 Earth
radii in about 1.5 billion years. Once this occurs, a resonance from
planetary effects will follow, causing swings of the obliquity between 22°
and 38°. Further, in approximately 2 billion years, when the Moon reaches
a distance of 68 Earth radii, another resonance will cause even greater
oscillations, between 27° and 60°. This would have extreme effects on
climate.

Ah yes, the same oscillation that are clearly seen in Mars (no
significant moons) Jupiter (no significant moons - well not by _it's_
standard) Saturn...

I leave out Venus and Mercury as their spin is so slow. And no one
would have noticed Uranus.

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

On 22/06/2011 00:25, Dave Farrance wrote:
The relatively small range for the Earth is due to the stabilizing
influence of the Moon, but it will not remain so. According to W.R. Ward,
the orbit of the Moon (which is continuously increasing due to tidal
effects) will have gone from the current 60 to approximately 66.5 Earth
radii in about 1.5 billion years. Once this occurs, a resonance from
planetary effects will follow, causing swings of the obliquity between 22°
and 38°. Further, in approximately 2 billion years, when the Moon reaches
a distance of 68 Earth radii, another resonance will cause even greater
oscillations, between 27° and 60°. This would have extreme effects on
climate.

Ah yes, the same oscillation that are clearly seen in Mars (no
significant moons) Jupiter (no significant moons - well not by _it's_
standard) Saturn...

I leave out Venus and Mercury as their spin is so slow. And no one
would have noticed Uranus.

Well, slight changes in axial tilt are detectable, but obviously not the
whole oscillations since I believe that the maths shows that the
oscillations take place over tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of years.

On 22/06/2011 22:12, Dave Farrance wrote:

Well, slight changes in axial tilt are detectable, but obviously not the
whole oscillations since I believe that the maths shows that the
oscillations take place over tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of years.

So the fact that they are all within 30 degrees of the ecliptic is just
chance? Even Venus, which spins backwards?

Andy

Andy Champ wrote:

On 22/06/2011 22:12, Dave Farrance wrote:

Well, slight changes in axial tilt are detectable, but obviously not the
whole oscillations since I believe that the maths shows that the
oscillations take place over tens (or hundreds?) of thousands of years.

So the fact that they are all within 30 degrees of the ecliptic is just
chance? Even Venus, which spins backwards?

I understand that if the gravitational influence on a planet is
overwhelmingly just one body, then its axial tilt is reasonably stable. In
the case of the Earth, if the Moon recedes too far, then there will be
significant influences from the Moon, the Sun, and Jupiter, which will
apparently result in much larger axial tilt oscillations. I'd guess that
Uranus has been knocked on its side by the relatively large influence of
Jupiter and Saturn at its position. Venus might well have inverted at
some point to get its backwards spin.

To the nearest degree, the axial tilts a

Mercury 0
Venus 177
Earth 23
Mars 25
Jupiter 3
Saturn 26
Uranus 97
Neptune 28

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Peter Duncanson
saying something like:

What force will cause the Earth to tip on its access?

A big boy will do it and run away.