Freeview HD Channel numbering

On Wed, 11 May 2011 12:15:14 +0100, Terry Casey
wrote:

In message on Tue, 10 May 2011
20:03:26 +0100
Scott wrote:

On Mon, 9 May 2011 22:15:10 +0100, Terry Casey
wrote:

In message on Mon, 09 May 2011
20:36:12 +0100
Scott wrote:

I don't know what age you are but on the old TVs it was customary to
assign BBC1 to number 1, BBC2 to number 2, ITV etc to number 3 and
Channel 4 to number 4.

You youngsters don't not know nuffin!

In the beginning was BBC Television Service and it was called television ...

Then commercial television started and BBC Television was on number 1 and ITV
was on number 9 ...[1]

Then Bush invented the 'Bush Button' tuner [2] and BBC Televison was on number
1 AND number 2 and ITV was on number 3 AND number 4, unless you were lucky
enough to receive the Dover transmitter as well, Then London ITV was on number
3 and Southern ITV was on number 4 ...


[1] London area. In other areas it was 4 and 8, 2 & 10 or 3 & 11, etc.
[2] There were buttons but the first two tuned Band I (Channels 1 - 5) used for
BBC TV and the second two tuned Band III (Channels 6 - 13) used for ITV. BBC
Television was renamed BBC1 when BBC2 started but that's all much more recent
...
I remember when it was BBC on channel 3 and STV on channel 10. My
granny always referred to STV as ITA.


Independent Television Authority. ITA was quite a common term (ITV was rarely
heard) and some BIII converters [1] were marked BBC - ITA as were some early
push button sets.

I don't remember any converter. She probably just picked up and
preferred to use the term.

I remember seeing the ABC ident with the three overlapping circles
between programmes. For years I thought this must have been in my
imagination until I discovered (through Google) that STV did a deal
with ABC to show the ABC service during off-peak times.


Do you mean triangles? http://www.625.uk.com/tv_logos/flash/abc_serif.asp

No.

Or are you getting confused with ATV, which had two overlapping eyes - not
three - with circles? http://www.625.uk.com/tv_logos/flash/atv_59.asp

Yes. That's the one. It is the three letters and three notes I was
thinking of. I was only about four at the time. And as far as I can
see it was only when STV was not broadcasting its own output.

Was your STV Scottish Television
http://www.625.uk.com/tv_logos/flash/scottish.asp

Yes.

- as opposed to Southern Television?
http://www.625.uk.com/tv_logos/flash/southern_3d.asp

Indeed.

On Tuesday, May 10th, 2011, at 20:03:26h +0100, Scott wrote:

I remember seeing the ABC ident with the three overlapping circles
between programmes.

The 1962 version? ;+} ;+} ;+}

http://www.youtube.COM/watch?v=ZbuGoZLmUTE

"J G Miller" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, May 10th, 2011, at 20:03:26h +0100, Scott wrote:

I remember seeing the ABC ident with the three overlapping circles
between programmes.

The 1962 version? ;+} ;+} ;+}

http://www.youtube.COM/watch?v=ZbuGoZLmUTE


or does the person mean ATV rather than ABC?

http://www.sub-tv.co.uk/atv.asp

Regards

Stephen

On Wed, 11 May 2011 19:26:26 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 10th, 2011, at 20:03:26h +0100, Scott wrote:

I remember seeing the ABC ident with the three overlapping circles
between programmes.

The 1962 version? ;+} ;+} ;+}

http://www.youtube.COM/watch?v=ZbuGoZLmUTE

No, I was thinking about the British ABC
http://www2.tv-ark.org.uk/itvlondon/atvlondon-main.html

which was renamed ATV. I now realise it must have been the ATV
version as I was too young to watch TV in 1955 !

In message on Thu, 12 May 2011 09:19:19 +0100
Brian Gaff wrote:

Basically what is being said is that tv transmission has been a bit of a
dogs dinner ever since it started. The first set I remember had just one
channel pre tuned by the sellar to ch1 for London, with a video carrier on
45Mhz and the AM sound on 41.5Mhz.
Then they invented ITV, and we had the 1950s equivelent of the set top box
that converted ch9 band 3 to the same frequency as BBC used. Thus anyone
near the bbc transmitter got severe patterning of course!


So did the neighbours! But for a slightly different reason ...

.... and their patterning was on BBC ...

--

Terry

In message ,
Terry Casey writes
In message on Thu, 12 May 2011 09:19:19 +0100
Brian Gaff wrote:

Basically what is being said is that tv transmission has been a bit of a
dogs dinner ever since it started. The first set I remember had just one
channel pre tuned by the sellar to ch1 for London, with a video carrier on
45Mhz and the AM sound on 41.5Mhz.
Then they invented ITV, and we had the 1950s equivelent of the set top box
that converted ch9 band 3 to the same frequency as BBC used. Thus anyone
near the bbc transmitter got severe patterning of course!


So did the neighbours! But for a slightly different reason ...

... and their patterning was on BBC ...

Weren't the single-channel sets mainly the early TRF sets?

I'm sure that converting to an existing off-air would be plagued with
problems. Were the first multi-channel sets Band 1 only? If so, the
obvious thing to do would have been convert to one of the out-of-area
channels.

I've seen one of those ITV converters in action - at my wife's
landlady's, in the early 60's (Ch5/C8 area). I can't remember how you
selected the ITV - whether you switched the TV set from Ch5 to (say)
Ch1, or simply flicked a switch on the converter box.
--
Ian

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:

Weren't the single-channel sets mainly the early TRF sets?

I'm sure that converting to an existing off-air would be plagued with
problems. Were the first multi-channel sets Band 1 only? If so, the
obvious thing to do would have been convert to one of the out-of-area
channels.

I've seen one of those ITV converters in action - at my wife's
landlady's, in the early 60's (Ch5/C8 area). I can't remember how you
selected the ITV - whether you switched the TV set from Ch5 to (say)
Ch1, or simply flicked a switch on the converter box.

Our first TV, a hand-me-down from my grandparents also in the early 60s,
had one. The converter was on the back of the set, and there was a big
knob which stuck out of the side and had to be pushed in or pulled out to
select BBC or ITV. I can't remember which make though as I would have
been less than six years old - perhaps even younger - and just didn't
notice these things

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

In message on Thu, 12 May 2011 11:00:41 +
0100
Ian Jackson wrote:

In message ,
Terry Casey writes
In message on Thu, 12 May 2011 09:19:19 +0100
Brian Gaff wrote:

Basically what is being said is that tv transmission has been a bit of a
dogs dinner ever since it started. The first set I remember had just one
channel pre tuned by the sellar to ch1 for London, with a video carrier on
45Mhz and the AM sound on 41.5Mhz.
Then they invented ITV, and we had the 1950s equivelent of the set top box
that converted ch9 band 3 to the same frequency as BBC used. Thus anyone
near the bbc transmitter got severe patterning of course!


So did the neighbours! But for a slightly different reason ...

... and their patterning was on BBC ...

Weren't the single-channel sets mainly the early TRF sets?

Originally, yes.


I'm sure that converting to an existing off-air would be plagued with
problems. Were the first multi-channel sets Band 1 only?

Yes - because there were no plans for BIII broadcasting.

If so, the obvious thing to do would have been convert to one of the
out-of-area channels.


The problem is that most sets had semi-fixed tuning. Bush, for example, had a
small tuning knob on the back that tuned continuously from Ch. 1 to Ch. 5 -
hardly convenient for channel changing on the fly. Until ITV came along, no
users had any reason to change channels - the channel selection was part of the
installation process to suit the local transmitter and was, for all practical
purposes, fixed.

I've seen one of those ITV converters in action - at my wife's
landlady's, in the early 60's (Ch5/C8 area). I can't remember how you
selected the ITV - whether you switched the TV set from Ch5 to (say)
Ch1, or simply flicked a switch on the converter box.

The latter. There was no such thing as a five position turret tuner AFAIK - see
above.

Here is a typical example:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/emi/band3/emiband3.htm

(Ignore the BII typo in the heading!)

--

Terry

In message on Thu, 12 May 2011 10:15:29 +0000 (UTC)
Nick Leverton wrote:

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:

Weren't the single-channel sets mainly the early TRF sets?

I'm sure that converting to an existing off-air would be plagued with
problems. Were the first multi-channel sets Band 1 only? If so, the
obvious thing to do would have been convert to one of the out-of-area
channels.

I've seen one of those ITV converters in action - at my wife's
landlady's, in the early 60's (Ch5/C8 area). I can't remember how you
selected the ITV - whether you switched the TV set from Ch5 to (say)
Ch1, or simply flicked a switch on the converter box.

Our first TV, a hand-me-down from my grandparents also in the early 60s,
had one. The converter was on the back of the set, and there was a big
knob which stuck out of the side and had to be pushed in or pulled out to
select BBC or ITV. I can't remember which make though as I would have
been less than six years old - perhaps even younger - and just didn't
notice these things



That would be a Bush! Probably a TV24 (12" tube, wooden cabinet) or a TV22 (9"
tube, bakelite cabinet)

Picture he http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/bush_tv24tv_2.html

It is in shadow but you can just make out the knob protruding from the rear.

Click on the 2nd thumbnail down in the LH column on the right for a view from
the rear.

The 2nd thumbnail down in the RH column shows the chassis without the convertor
fitted - the little slotted knob on the left is the Ch. 1 - 5 tuning I referred
to in a previous post.

--

Terry

Ian Jackson wrote:

I'm sure that converting to an existing off-air would be plagued with
problems.
It was OK as long as the BBC signal wasn't too strong in the area.


Were the first multi-channel sets Band 1 only? If so, the
obvious thing to do would have been convert to one of the out-of-area
channels.
No, the pre-ITV sets didn't have a tuning knob. Earlier ones were
labelled 'London' or 'Birmingham' on the back and with later ones the
dealer would specify the channel when ordering, although this could be
changed later if necessary by fitting a different plug-in thing. I can
only vaguely remember this, watching the dealer that my dad fitted
aerials for. I seem to think the plug-in thing was on a valve base.


I've seen one of those ITV converters in action - at my wife's
landlady's, in the early 60's (Ch5/C8 area). I can't remember how you
selected the ITV - whether you switched the TV set from Ch5 to (say)
Ch1, or simply flicked a switch on the converter box.
The latter. For ITV the box was on, for BBC it was bypassed internally,
and definitely off to avoid patterning.

Bill