Virgin Media Box: Class Act

In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011 01:56:47 +0000
Bill Wright wrote:

Terry Casey wrote:
In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:25:33 +0000
Bill Wright wrote:
Terry Casey wrote:


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...G6_Siamese.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...G6-Siamese.jpg

They don't use that round here. It's just a normal RG6. Little splitter,
one leg to telly box other leg to modem.


That's ok for DTV and Broadband[1] but the twisted pairs are needed for a telephone - if
the sub doesn't want the 'phone, there is no need for UTP, though VM seem to insist on a
'phone as part of the package these days.

[1] In cabled areas, broadband isn't ADSL on a telephone line - it is provided at RF (my
current downstream is at 586.75MHz). In fact, the broadband signal is indistinguishable
from a DTV mux on an analyser (except in some former NYNEX areas where the first
broadband service uses a 6MHz bandwidth instead iof 8MHz, though I would expect that that
might have been changed by now.)

The point is that telephony is still done on twisted copper and is still completely
separate from the other services.

Well young man, you seem to know what you're talking about,

Thank you kind sir - though the 'young' is a tad patronising! (67 in April)

but round
here they just seem to have the coax coming in. Maybe the twisted pair
is taken from outside the house somewhere, but if so I've never seen it.
I've prized open a few of those boxes on the outside wall and seen
nowt but two coaxes linked with a line connector. Maybe I missed something.


Well, you did say "... little splitter, one leg to telly box other leg to modem", but no
mention of a 'phone ...

Perhaps the next time you see one, you should concentrate on the telephone and trace it
back - and if it ends up on a wooden pole in the street, it definitely ain't cable!

I was part of a small team that was responsible for, initially, the roll-out of DTV from
each headend, then the roll-out of broadband and, finally, upgrading the broadband
network all over the country or, at least, the NTL part of it.

Thus I became aware of the myriad of differences between different constituent parts of
the company, although only the DTV roll-out really brought me into contact with the
'outside world'.

Unfortunately, Yorkshire represents a void in my breadth of knowledge because it was
handled by colleagues from the Manchester area. Thus I know neither its history nor its
local eccentricities.

I should stress that that last comment refers only to matters of a technical nature!

--

Terry

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 21:42:34 -0000, "kraftee"
kraftee:b&e-cottee.me.uk wrote:


Come to some of the streets in the east of Nottingham and tell me those
aren't Virgin cables and poles. Even the users aren't particularly happy
about it but it does happen.

I'm from Nottingham & wasn't aware that they had any overhead poles
anywhere. Were they put up in the Diamond Cable/NTL days or later?
Whereabouts in the east of Nottm.?

In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:46:27 +0000
tony sayer wrote:

In article ,
Terry Casey scribeth thus
In article , lid says...

tony sayer wrote:

Co-ax, RG11 IIRC and a two pair copper phone cable often referred to in
the trade as "Sidecar cable"


Right: Given that it's you Tony, I take that as authoritative.

So we have (a) God amongst us, do we? Perhaps I should bow and scrape ...

Sarcasm will get ye nowhere;!..


any sarcasm there wasn't directed at you ...

unless ...

In 1967, one of the colour supplements ran an article on the start of colour TV in the UK
in which it mentioned Rank-Bush-Murphy and their Chief Designer, Bernard J Rogers.

Describing the man, it related the tale that once, while he was away from his desk,
someone fixed a sign to the front of it.

It read: "I am right by definition. If I were not, you would be sitting here."

On his return, Rogers noted the sign, read it, nodded approvingly and sat down, leaving
the sign on show in perpetuity.

Many years later, I met Bernard at a Viewdata User Group meeting - by this time he was
representing BREMA. Wondering if the story was apochryphal, I asked him about the
article.

He didn't recall it but, when I repeated the story, he didn't deny it ...


Actually, RG6 is the norm ...

One or the other. Seem to remember one of their local engineers
referring to it as 11 ..

Engineer that was, not installer;!..


A well populated street cabinet is pretty much full using RG6. RG11 is over twice the
cross sectional area plus, of course, having a greater bend radius, so I don't think it
would work on a mass scale. Designers usually avoid RG11 unless it's absolutely necessary
for a couple of extra long drops. On the other hand, I don't recall ever having my head
inside a Cambridge Cable cabinet, so they might have done something different ...

Didn't they use those plastic street cabinets? Their 19" racks were a pain because they
used an unusual shelf support system, so you had to beg, steal or borrow the supports if
you wanted to install any new kit ...

(An _empty_ Cisco router is, strictly speaking, a two man lift, so relying on front
mounting only was a no - no!)

--

Terry

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011 01:56:47
+0000
Bill Wright wrote:

Terry Casey wrote:
In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011
00:25:33 +0000
Bill Wright wrote:
Terry Casey wrote:


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...G6_Siamese.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...G6-Siamese.jpg

They don't use that round here. It's just a normal RG6. Little
splitter,
one leg to telly box other leg to modem.


That's ok for DTV and Broadband[1] but the twisted pairs are needed for
a telephone - if
the sub doesn't want the 'phone, there is no need for UTP, though VM
seem to insist on a
'phone as part of the package these days.

[1] In cabled areas, broadband isn't ADSL on a telephone line - it is
provided at RF (my
current downstream is at 586.75MHz). In fact, the broadband signal is
indistinguishable
from a DTV mux on an analyser (except in some former NYNEX areas where
the first
broadband service uses a 6MHz bandwidth instead iof 8MHz, though I
would expect that that
might have been changed by now.)

The point is that telephony is still done on twisted copper and is
still completely
separate from the other services.

Well young man, you seem to know what you're talking about,

Thank you kind sir - though the 'young' is a tad patronising! (67 in
April)

but round
here they just seem to have the coax coming in. Maybe the twisted pair
is taken from outside the house somewhere, but if so I've never seen it.
I've prized open a few of those boxes on the outside wall and seen
nowt but two coaxes linked with a line connector. Maybe I missed
something.


Well, you did say "... little splitter, one leg to telly box other leg to
modem", but no
mention of a 'phone ...

Perhaps the next time you see one, you should concentrate on the telephone
and trace it
back - and if it ends up on a wooden pole in the street, it definitely
ain't cable!

I was part of a small team that was responsible for, initially, the
roll-out of DTV from
each headend, then the roll-out of broadband and, finally, upgrading the
broadband
network all over the country or, at least, the NTL part of it.

Thus I became aware of the myriad of differences between different
constituent parts of
the company, although only the DTV roll-out really brought me into contact
with the
'outside world'.

Unfortunately, Yorkshire represents a void in my breadth of knowledge
because it was
handled by colleagues from the Manchester area. Thus I know neither its
history nor its
local eccentricities.

I should stress that that last comment refers only to matters of a
technical nature!

--

Terry

Thanks for the excellent detailed posts Terry. I would just like to raise
the issue of 'legacy' cable. When cable was first laid in my area around 20
years ago the cable company just laid coax to customers homes, prior to them
providing a telco service circa. 1994.

There are still many hundreds of homes in my area where customers without VM
telephone just have the original coax to premises (for TV and Broadband) and
have never had an upgrade to the siamese cable. I just felt I should explain
this so that others are aware why the twisted pair can be missing in
'legacy' cases.

Sheila

In message on Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:58:03 -0000
Sheila wrote:

Thanks for the excellent detailed posts Terry. I would just like to raise
the issue of 'legacy' cable. When cable was first laid in my area around 20
years ago the cable company just laid coax to customers homes, prior to them
providing a telco service circa. 1994.

There are still many hundreds of homes in my area where customers without VM
telephone just have the original coax to premises (for TV and Broadband) and
have never had an upgrade to the siamese cable. I just felt I should explain
this so that others are aware why the twisted pair can be missing in
'legacy' cases.


Thanks for that, Sheila. That had completely slipped my mind.

For some strange reason, the early build that I came into contact with only had
commercial telco, not residential.

When the new build started up in the early 90s it was 100% CATV & telco.

Despite that, when my area was cabled a year or two later, my feed was with separate
cables, one RG6 for CATV and the other, IIRC, a _three_ pair cable for telco, which must
be a bit of a rarity!

I know exactly where it is - it's pair one on block one (!) and I still have a cabinet
key ...

I might have a peep when I'm passing sometime or, more likely, when I'm locking the
cabinet properly! (Its a cabinet with a one-piece lift-off door and it needs a strong
push against all the steel cored RG6 in there to get it located correctly; every time
someone goes there, they invariably leave one end unlatched!)

--

Terry

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:17:35 +0000, George Weston
wrote:

On 08/02/2011 19:04, Rick wrote:

The original system where I live was installed quite a few years ago by
the aforementioned United Artists (now Virgin) an American Company, I
wonder if they use same style cabinets in the U.S. and if so, the reason
that they aren't designed to be bomb proof is simply because they don't
have the the same proliferation of moronic chavs who constantly
vandalise them in the same way as they do here in the UK?

The moronic chavs are there all right but I'd bet that they have more
lucrative targets to go for.
Plus, of course, the possibility of them getting shot if someone (not
necessarily a cop) saw them at it...

I'd have thought the cabinets themselves would need to be bulletproof

On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 17:16:54 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

That'll be because it was copper thieves

They're stealing policemen now???

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 15:20:01 -0000, "Rick" wrote:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11815200/virgin.jpg


splutter

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article , "kraftee" says...

"Paulg0" wrote in message
...


"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
Cable companies aren't allowed to use overhead distribution in the UK
but
BT still can
and do ...

Virgin have been trialing it recently:
http://www.silicon.com/technology/ne...work-39745587/

Paul

Piloting it?????

It's already being done and has been for at least 10 years

By Virgin Media or, as you are going back before the inception of VM, one
(or more) of
its constituents?

Certainly done deliberately in parts of East Nottingham, they used the
extreme weather bring down lines as a sales ploy and then stuck up poles and
fed the user over head again. So that's got to be NTL, who is still behind
the thin fascia called Virgin, re-inventing the wheel.

On Thursday, February 10th, 2011 at 00:54:58h +0000, Tony sayer wrote:

Same systems also with Bell cablemedia in Peterborough and Narwich and
Nynex Manchester Liverpool Lancs..and etc further North...

Did Nynex operate in the City of Liverpool?

I thought City of Liverpool was Telewest only, and Nynex was across
the Mersey in Wirral.

According to one forum posting --

QUOTE

Ex Nynex network (Wirral, Warrington, Manchester & East Lancs)

UNQUOTE