HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner

Brian Mc wrote:
: : Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
: : available on standard definition channels?

: Not likely! The ONLY broadcasters who are likely to be able to offer
: non-subscription HD channels in the near future will be simulcasting.

I am being stupid! The obvious (and so far ONLY!) exception is BBCHD - which
is NOT a simulcast of anything.

In article ,
J G Miller wrote:

Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to
receive FM broadcasts

A pedant writes:

You *can* use an AM tuner to receive FM broadcasts. If you tune an AM
receiver slightly off the frequency of an FM broadcast, the varying
frequencies of the FM will be at varying distances from the receiver's
resonant frequency, and thus more or less well-received. This will
appear just like the varying amplitude of an AM signal. It's known as
"slope detection", referring to the slope of the tuner's sensitivity
on either side of the tuned frequency. The quality will not be great:
for one thing the slope will not be linear.

We now return you to your scheduled AM broadcast.

-- Richard

In article ,
Brian Mc wrote:

I am being stupid! The obvious (and so far ONLY!) exception is BBCHD - which
is NOT a simulcast of anything.

However, the programs showin on BBC HD are shown on other BBC channels
at some time or other. I imagine there would be a great outcry if they
carried anything significant that was not available to SD viewers.

-- Richard

Ian Jackson wrote:
: Does the fact that you can't receive HD transmissions on an SD set not
: suggest that maybe the designers didn't try hard enough? ;o)

Not really! DVB-T2 was only finalised this year. It would have been
unrealistic to have, as a design goal, "to be received by DVB-T" - when
this was likely to compromise ALL the efficiency gains!

It is NOT like DVB-T tuner HD Freeview sets won't be able to receive
Freeview HD broadcasts - they will need an external box!

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
divoch wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2
standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will
ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview
HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will
there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would
make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there
are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now.

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.
Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

--
My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes
transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have
programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I
would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are
transmitted HD or not.

divoch

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:50:16 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.

It keeps people in jobs making new ones.

It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to
cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there
would be mass unemployment worldwide.

In China. Let's not exaggerate.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:25:48 -0000, "divoch"
wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
divoch wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
news On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2
standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will
ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview
HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will
there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would
make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there
are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now.

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.
Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

--
My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes
transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have
programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I
would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are
transmitted HD or not.

You can buy a Freeview HD set-top box (STB) to plug into the TV to give
you access to Freeview HD channels.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 15:12:42h +0000, Brian Mc wrote:

That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT
muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES!

2 years minimum perhaps.

A week is a long time in politics.

A year is an age in Digital Video Broadcasting

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:03:16 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:50:16 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.

It keeps people in jobs making new ones.

It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to
cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there
would be mass unemployment worldwide.

In China. Let's not exaggerate.

Don't forget all the people involved in the retail trade in this
country.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:27:14 -0000, "divoch"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD
channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct?
Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make
it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not
many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now.

divoch

Although strictly speaking not programmes that are unavailable on SD I
find that quite frequently I can watch a programme on BBC HD (the
original, now on Channel 54) that is going out on SD at the same time
in most of the UK except Scotland. This gives me a degree of choice
as BBC Scotland often broadcasts the same programme in SD at a
different and less convenient time. This saves me having to record
it. An HD "ready" TV without a DVB-T2 tuner would not have this
choice.

This alone would make me now only buy TVs with a DVB-T2 tuner whether
or not the benefits of HD would be apparent on a small screen. As has
been noted, anything smaller than 32" with a DVB-T2 tuner does not
currently seem to exist.