The future of the relays

On 24 Aug, 01:53, "
wrote:
In post-DSO areas coverage from the main stations is generally so much
better than it was for analogue that many relays now seem to be
unneccessary. Another factor is that many relays were put into place
because of ghosting problems with the main station, and of course that
raison d'etre has gone. Since the relays only carry Freeview Lite
aerial installers are finding some resistance to their use from
customers. Given also that Freesat is always there, I wonder if the
end is nigh for the UK's 1,000+ relay transmitters.

It seems that someone decided that it would have been politically
impossible to end their existence as part of DSO, so I wonder if they
will be phased out one at a time over the next ten years or so.

During the parliamentary scrutiny of digital switch over, one of the
blokes at the top of the BBC was asked about relays, and whether it
was cost effective to keep them on.

paraphrasing, his reply was "oh, we looked at that - but even for the
smaller relays, it's cheaper to switch the relay to digital than to
provide all the viewers with satellite dishes and STBs".

An interesting (unfair!) comparison, since upon switch over at the
relay, all those same viewers would be required to get STBs (or
Freeview TVs) at their own expense.


It's the BBC's stated aim to keep as many people on Freeview as
possible. They hate people having satellite - people with satellite
have more choice and watch less BBC. How much this applies to Freesat
I'm not sure - this policy was set by Greg Dyke before Freesat
arrived.


Truth is, any common sense approach would see those Freeview-lite
relays switched off. In these late-to-Freeview areas, the vast
majority of homes have satellite dishes already - so the number of
people _using_ the relay is much smaller than the intended coverage
figures. I wonder how many relays have fewer than 500 actual viewers?
(IIRC that was the threshold for them being built in the first place).

When Freeview finally arrives, it'll be Freeview-lite only, so even
with the present silly state of Freesat not carrying all the Freeview
channels, Freesat still has the advantage in Freeview-lite areas.

Makes you wonder if they couldn't have done something slightly more
interesting with this terrestrial TV broadcasting infrastructure than
just duplicating exactly what could be done more cheaply via
satellite? Maybe making satellite predominantly for main TVs, and
Freeview predominantly for portable and mobile use, we could have had
a real reason to keep the relays there?

Cheers,
David.

Steve Terry wrote:


"John J Armstrong" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 22:44:39 +0100, Java Jive
wrote:
snip
Quite agree with your views on poor public service. I suspect in this
case though that the date is not yet known. A number of multi-storeys
are to be demolished, and the work has started, As they're in close
proximity to Ninewells Hospital, explosives can't be used and they're
being taken down more or less brick by brick.


The reason for dismantling instead of demolishing is probably EU
regulations for recycling building materials, and health & safety of
possible hazardous materials such as asbestos.

It's the proximity to the hospital that will preclude other more
satisfying methods of demolition. Explosives and building munchers
make a lot of noise and dust. Demolition matter can be put into huge
machines (which also make a lot of noise and dust) to sort out steel
and aggregate which then get reused.

Multi storey car parks have the advantage of easy access to the upper
floors. If your multi storey refers to residential or office blocks
then access is a bit more difficult but nothing a crane some
scaffolding and a few chutes won't fix.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:23:05 +0100, Phil Cook
wrote:


Multi storey car parks have the advantage of easy access to the upper
floors. If your multi storey refers to residential or office blocks
then access is a bit more difficult but nothing a crane some
scaffolding and a few chutes won't fix.

These are multi-storey flats, probably 30-40 years old.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:


It's the BBC's stated aim to keep as many people on Freeview as
possible. They hate people having satellite - people with satellite
have more choice and watch less BBC. How much this applies to Freesat
I'm not sure - this policy was set by Greg Dyke before Freesat
arrived.


Truth is, any common sense approach would see those Freeview-lite
relays switched off. In these late-to-Freeview areas, the vast
majority of homes have satellite dishes already - so the number of
people _using_ the relay is much smaller than the intended coverage
figures. I wonder how many relays have fewer than 500 actual viewers?
(IIRC that was the threshold for them being built in the first place).

Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview
via relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? (Have I missed any?)

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

In article , John J Armstrong
wrote:


Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview via
relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? (Have I missed any?)

Internet.

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

By coincidence Radio Times have some results of a survey in the new issue.
Not read it yet, but it says "more details at radiotimes.com/tv-nation".
But it may mainly be about the kinds of content, etc.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 2010-08-24 16:21, Java Jive wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:24:42 +0000 (UTC), J G
wrote:

On Tuesday, August 24th, 2010 at 14:53:54h +0100, Java Jive wrote:

Bagillt

Flint
Holywell

But these have been replaced by a better service from
Storeton, Wirral.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but I didn't list Storeton's replacement
transmissions as it's not a new relay site as such.

It is not a new site but it is providing a new service, namely the
transmission of Welsh TV towards north-facing hillside areas along the
Dee estuary. So "Storeton-Wales" could be argued to be a new relay,
albeit co-located with an existing relay covering parts of the Wirral
(and further afield as far as Skelmersdale if my recollections of
Digital Spy forum postings are correct).

On 31 Aug, 16:37, John J Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

It's the BBC's stated aim to keep as many people on Freeview as
possible. They hate people having satellite - people with satellite
have more choice and watch less BBC. How much this applies to Freesat
I'm not sure - this policy was set by Greg Dyke before Freesat
arrived.

Truth is, any common sense approach would see those Freeview-lite
relays switched off. In these late-to-Freeview areas, the vast
majority of homes have satellite dishes already - so the number of
people _using_ the relay is much smaller than the intended coverage
figures. I wonder how many relays have fewer than 500 actual viewers?
(IIRC that was the threshold for them being built in the first place).

Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? *Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview
via relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? *(Have I missed any?)

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

OfCom certainly published them in the past, though they haven't always
reflected the method of reception in _all_ rooms of a given household.

Cheers,
David.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:14:33 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , John J Armstrong
wrote:


Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview via
relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? (Have I missed any?)

Internet.

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

By coincidence Radio Times have some results of a survey in the new issue.
Not read it yet, but it says "more details at radiotimes.com/tv-nation".
But it may mainly be about the kinds of content, etc.

Slainte,

Jim

Thanks all for replies.

Jim, I followed that link, and although it goes on a bit about
presenters, it does also give some interesting stats about how we
watch TV. 47% have Freeview, and 57% have Sky or Freeview. (RT says
"Sky and Freeview", but presumably this means one or the other.)

On 01/09/2010 16:42, John J Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:14:33 +0100, Jim
wrote:

In , John J Armstrong
wrote:


Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview via
relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? (Have I missed any?)

Internet.

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

By coincidence Radio Times have some results of a survey in the new issue.
Not read it yet, but it says "more details at radiotimes.com/tv-nation".
But it may mainly be about the kinds of content, etc.

Slainte,

Jim

Thanks all for replies.

Jim, I followed that link, and although it goes on a bit about
presenters, it does also give some interesting stats about how we
watch TV. 47% have Freeview, and 57% have Sky or Freeview. (RT says
"Sky and Freeview", but presumably this means one or the other.)

Wouldn't "Sky or Freesat" make more sense?

--

Terry

On 31 Aug, 16:37, John J Armstrong wrote:
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 05:57:08 -0700 (PDT),
"
wrote:

It's the BBC's stated aim to keep as many people on Freeview as
possible. They hate people having satellite - people with satellite
have more choice and watch less BBC. How much this applies to Freesat
I'm not sure - this policy was set by Greg Dyke before Freesat
arrived.

Truth is, any common sense approach would see those Freeview-lite
relays switched off. In these late-to-Freeview areas, the vast
majority of homes have satellite dishes already - so the number of
people _using_ the relay is much smaller than the intended coverage
figures. I wonder how many relays have fewer than 500 actual viewers?
(IIRC that was the threshold for them being built in the first place).

Does anyone here know numbers/percentages of viewers using each of the
different viewing methods? *Freeview via main transmitters, Freeview
via relay transmitters, Freesat, Cable, Sky? *(Have I missed any?)

Ok, the figures will be fluid, but ballpark would be interesting.

It must be here somewhere...
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/mar...-audio-visual/
....but I can't find it!

Cheers,
David.