Humax 9200T - unfit for purpose?

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3 times
yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last week it has
frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and would not turn
on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware,

Based on what exactly?
I'd say it's quite likely there was a hardware fault as they don't all
behave like you claim.


--
Alex

There are a number of possabilities with this sort of problem.
Firstly, since the transmissions have been altered since it was designed,
it is quite possible for there to be an existing hardware problem that only
shows up later.
Then, there could be rogue batch of chips that eithe have a problem which
was not picked up, or has occured after some time. Components do fail, maybe
due to bad static precautions at manufacture,f for example.

Then, as you say, it may be that the fault is known and be it software or
hardware, they want to work around it in software, and it might not be as
simple as originally thought, to achieve this with the coming changes in
transmissions at switch over etc.

Some folk here do say that not all samples behave as the original poster
says, so I'd suggest it has to be hardware. It could even be a subtle timing
problem of differentbactches of chips.


Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dr Zoidberg" wrote in message
...

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3
times yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last week
it has frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and would
not turn on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware,

Based on what exactly?
I'd say it's quite likely there was a hardware fault as they don't all
behave like you claim.


--
Alex

"Dr Zoidberg" wrote in message
...

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3
times yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last week
it has frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and would
not turn on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware,

Based on what exactly?
I'd say it's quite likely there was a hardware fault as they don't all
behave like you claim.

I suppose technically you are correct and there might have been a dodgy
batch of hardware, but then the same issue would apply, it's not fit for
purpose.

In any case, someone has posted a link to the beta of the expected release
so I'll give that a whirl - can't be any worse than it is now!

Paul DS

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 07:43:13 +0100, "Dr Zoidberg"
wrote:


"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3 times
yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last week it has
frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and would not turn
on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware,

Based on what exactly?
I'd say it's quite likely there was a hardware fault as they don't all
behave like you claim.

At the last count I have installed nine Humaxes of various models.
The only fault I have ever experienced was a timer problem that was
fixed by a firmware update.
All the users of various ages and ability have been entirely happy
with them. One elderly couple needed a replacement remote with bigger
buttons.

"Dr Zoidberg" wrote in message
...

Based on what exactly?
I'd say it's quite likely there was a hardware fault as they don't all
behave like you claim.

In principle you are correct, but in this case it is a software fault. If
you follow the discussions on hummy.org the problem has been comprehensively
discussed and investigated. Large numbers, but not all, of 9200s suddenly
develop the same set of symptoms. The first one the user notices is very
slow response to the remote (sometimes in tens of seconds), which over time
escalates to freezing and eventually full crashing and restarts.

The technical details haven't been released by Humax, but the best we can
gather is that it is caused by a change in format of the broadcast data from
one of the broadcasters (or on one of the muxes - it isn't clear). Humax
have described this informally as "naughty", which suggests to me that their
interpretation of the low level details of the relevant standard is
different from the broadcaster's.

This change has happened only on some of the transmitters, so only those
9200s in those areas are affected. Apparently this mysterious format change
sometimes takes place at DSO, hence people associating the 9200 problems
with DSO in general. It isn't always the case though. Other people have
associated it with a mix of 2K and 8K, but again that isn't always the case.

Last year I lived in Felixstowe and my 9200 worked perfectly off Sudbury.
The symptoms appeared the day I moved to Nottingham (off the Nottingham
transmitter). Both are 2K only at this point. It supports the settled view
that this is caused by some particular characteristic of the broadcast data.

Humax have not given a detailed technical explanation of the fault, so a lot
of the above is slightly speculative. It has been gleaned by tech-savvy
customers from Humax's own responses and explanations, combined with looking
at where the complaints are coming from, when they started, and so on.
Personally I wish Humax would give some more technical details. It must be
a pretty tough problem, though. They've been promising an OTA software
update "in the next few weeks" for over six months.

SteveT

On 26/04/2010 18:39, Dickie Mint wrote:
On 26/04/2010 17:08, Ivan wrote:

See the post from Paul Jones in 'Information Update - Humax PVR-9200T'
further down.

Strangely, news.individual.net haven't loaded that thread in yet. I had
to use google groups to read it.

Richard
It was me! I'd re-ordered the way threads are shown on just that group,
for some obscure reason my ancient brain immediately forgot!

I think it was the multiple Dr. Who banner threads that threw me into
thinking I was seeing individual replies instead of woven into threads.

Richard

The EETSI spec for broadcasting DTT (&DSAT) is quite complex, but to get
the assortment of Digital Tick, etc a receiver has to pass the DTG's
rigorous tests. So to blame a broadcaster's transmissions is just plain
silly!

The 9200T design is somewhat rigid. Take the failure to start on time
under "Accurate Record". Humax, I discovered, *only* use the "running
status flag" toggle which should go out with the start of programme.
Or, actually, before. As the BBC, in theory, send it at the start ofthe
last ad before the station ident, and itv1 send it at the start of the
ad break.

Now should this RSF toggle not happen or be delayed, the Hummy will not
start until after the programme has commenced.

The Sony PVRs have a more common sensical approach to their design.
These also have a failsafe "Start on EITpf start time if RSF not
received before.

Richard

Paul D.Smith wrote:
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3
times yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last
week it has frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and
would not turn on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware, and it
was sold as a Freeview+ box, so do you think we have a case for
requesting our money back as unfit for purpose?

I'm certainly adding Humax to my list of "won't buy from them again"
suppliers because we've been waiting months for this supposedly coming fix.


The 9200 hasn't really been right since the last
software release in 2008. This was rushed out so they
could market the box as Freeview+ compliant with the
new features, though they didn't work as well as they
should (missing start or end of programmes, series
links just disappear from schedules). At the same
time, Humax responded to user complaints by speeding
up the time taken to populate the EPG (and making it
viewable during playback). The box didn't seem able
to cope with the extra processing at times, although
most users don't seem to have noticed until broadcast
changes made matters worse. Users who'd bought the
box before Freeview+ was announced don't really have
much comeback - they could have left it on the
previous firmware, as many did. If you'd bought it
later, when it was advertised as Freeview+ compatible,
then you could have cause for complaint.

Humax lost interest in development as they were
concentrating on new products. Some of those started
to show similar problems, and they had priority as
current products.

Although recent performance has been disappointing, I
doubt there are any other boxes that can claim to be
better overall. I will probably replace my Humax with
a net-top PC, which is now no more expensive, has
better software support and is less susceptible to
obsolescence, though may not be as simple to set-up
and use.

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
...
Like many on this list, I have a Humax 9200T. Loved it when I got it,
don't know how I lived without it.

Problem is that is has got more and more unreliable. It locked up 3 times
yesterday just flicking between channels and twice in the last week it has
frozen possibly whilst recording (it was in "standby" and would not turn
on).

Now I don't think there can be anything wrong with the hardware, and it
was sold as a Freeview+ box, so do you think we have a case for requesting
our money back as unfit for purpose?

I'm certainly adding Humax to my list of "won't buy from them again"
suppliers because we've been waiting months for this supposedly coming
fix.

Paul DS
I'm surprised to hear that as I've got the older PVR8000T/80GB here in the
dining room and it's never given an trouble apart from the original remote
packing up. It's used every day. Although it's only got one tuner it's still
a good piece of kit.
Regards Mike.

"Mike GW8IJT" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised to hear that as I've got the older PVR8000T/80GB here in the
dining room and it's never given an trouble apart from the original remote
packing up. It's used every day. Although it's only got one tuner it's
still a good piece of kit.

Yes, it seems to be the 9200 in particular that is affected, and for some
reason only in some areas (apparently depending on what transmitter you are
using).

SteveT