Tories may 'lose broadband vote'

On 17/03/2010 01:54, J G Miller wrote:
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:19:10 +0000, George Weston wrote:

Wrong - footways and verges are part of the highway and as such are the
legal responsibility of county councils

Except many county councils no longer exist, and those that still do
will eventually be abolished -- it is a case of when, not if.

Erm... explain, please.
I think you'll find that many *district* or *borough* councils are being
abolished and being subsumed into new Unitary Authorities, who have the
powers of district and country councils put together and can therefore
be considered as "county councils".

This happened in Wales over 10 years ago. All Welsh authorities are now
unitary with no "middleman" councils.

George

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:26:09 +0000, George Weston wrote:

I think you'll find that many *district* or *borough* councils are being
abolished and being subsumed into new Unitary Authorities, who have the
powers of district and country councils put together and can therefore
be considered as "county councils".

Yes but they are not "county councils" in the usual sense, but unitary
authorities whose territory is county wide.

In the more populated shire counties, county councils have been abolished
and multiples of the district councils combined but not the whole county
eg in Berkshire, Cheshire etc.

In the less populated shire counties, the district councils have all been
combined into one county wide unitary authority, effectively supplanting
the former county council.

In the Labour scheme of things, instead of having a county council as
the upper level, a more centralized elected regional council was going
to be implemented, but Prescott failed to make this happen.

On 17/03/2010 19:21, J G Miller wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:26:09 +0000, George Weston wrote:

I think you'll find that many *district* or *borough* councils are being
abolished and being subsumed into new Unitary Authorities, who have the
powers of district and country councils put together and can therefore
be considered as "county councils".

Yes but they are not "county councils" in the usual sense, but unitary
authorities whose territory is county wide.

Which is in effect the same thing. Also, many of the Unitary Authorities
*are* called County Councils, such as my own area:
http://www.monmouthshire.gov.uk/site/index.php
Some Unitary Authorities in the more urban but geographically-small
areas may call themselves by other names, e.g. Newport City Council,
City and County of Bristol, Caerphilly County Borough Council but they
all have one thing in common, which is that they all cover *all* council
services in their areas. This makes life a bit simpler for the residents
of these areas, who don't have to try and remember "who deals with what"
when it comes to roads, refuse collection, highways, council tax,
schools, etc... It's now THE council, not a choice of one out of two.
And it also reduces the number of local councillors, which is no bad
thing...


In the more populated shire counties, county councils have been abolished
and multiples of the district councils combined but not the whole county
eg in Berkshire, Cheshire etc.

I agree that this is a mess, especially in England, where they are going
about things in a piecemeal manner, rather than in Wales, when they
"unitarised" the whole nation in one fell swoop. It might make sense to
national government but it confuses people. For instance, Newbury used
to be in Berkshire. Now it's part of the Unitary Authority of West
Berkshire. As far as I know, "East Berkshire" doesn't exist and the old
Royal County of Berkshire is no more!

In the less populated shire counties, the district councils have all been
combined into one county wide unitary authority, effectively supplanting
the former county council.

Yep.


In the Labour scheme of things, instead of having a county council as
the upper level, a more centralized elected regional council was going
to be implemented, but Prescott failed to make this happen.

It's a good job that public opinion put Prescott in his place on that
one! Can you imagine the conversations that would end up with an answer
like: "Oh - I'm a citizen of the South-East England (Excluding London),
Region number 34...!"

George

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 George Weston wrote:

In the more populated shire counties, county councils have been abolished
and multiples of the district councils combined but not the whole county
eg in Berkshire, Cheshire etc.

I agree that this is a mess, especially in England, where they are
going about things in a piecemeal manner, rather than in Wales, when
they "unitarised" the whole nation in one fell swoop. It might make
sense to national government but it confuses people. For instance,
Newbury used to be in Berkshire. Now it's part of the Unitary Authority
of West Berkshire. As far as I know, "East Berkshire" doesn't exist and
the old Royal County of Berkshire is no more!

The Royal County of Berkshire exists but in name as a geographical
entity. The unitary authorities within Berkshire are Reading BC,
Bracknell Forest BC, Slough BC, Wokingham DC, West Berks Council and the
Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On 18/03/2010 14:36, David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 George Weston wrote:

In the more populated shire counties, county councils have been
abolished
and multiples of the district councils combined but not the whole county
eg in Berkshire, Cheshire etc.

I agree that this is a mess, especially in England, where they are
going about things in a piecemeal manner, rather than in Wales, when
they "unitarised" the whole nation in one fell swoop. It might make
sense to national government but it confuses people. For instance,
Newbury used to be in Berkshire. Now it's part of the Unitary
Authority of West Berkshire. As far as I know, "East Berkshire"
doesn't exist and the old Royal County of Berkshire is no more!

The Royal County of Berkshire exists but in name as a geographical
entity. The unitary authorities within Berkshire are Reading BC,
Bracknell Forest BC, Slough BC, Wokingham DC, West Berks Council and the
Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

David

Thanks for that - a prime example of what a mess results from splitting
up an historic shire county into small pieces!
I can understand cities within the area of shire counties doing their
own thing but Berkshire doesn't have any!
(In any case, as far as I'm concerned, Slough is still in
Buckinghamshire - and I'm sure that the majority of Berkshire residents
would have similar feelings!)

George

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:02 +0000, George Weston wrote:

but they all have one thing in common, which is that they all cover
*all* council services in their areas.

Except where there are parish or town councils.

This makes life a bit simpler for the residents of these areas,
who don't have to try and remember "who deals with what" when it comes
to roads, refuse collection, highways, council tax, schools, etc...

So who deals with the local ambulance service, or the local fire and
emergency service, or the local police service, all of which used to
be under county council control.

It's a good job that public opinion put Prescott in his place on that
one!

Yes, Scotland and Wales get devolution from Westminster but not the
more populous regions of England.

J G Miller wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:02 +0000, George Weston wrote:

but they all have one thing in common, which is that they all cover
*all* council services in their areas.

Except where there are parish or town councils.

This makes life a bit simpler for the residents of these areas,
who don't have to try and remember "who deals with what" when it comes
to roads, refuse collection, highways, council tax, schools, etc...

So who deals with the local ambulance service, or the local fire and
emergency service, or the local police service, all of which used to
be under county council control.


Home secretary?

The point was that Labour wanted to make councils - and has succeeded in
making councils largely, simple instruments of government policy. I.e.
their sole function is to see that central policies are implemented and
not have any say in how where or why.

They have become totally emasculated .


As we discovered when we queried 'structure plans' and asked 'why do we
need development in this area anyway?'

'Because John Prescott has decided we are a suitable place to dump 25000
townies'

'And what say have we, who live here, in this?

'None, that will make any difference'


It's a good job that public opinion put Prescott in his place on that
one!

Yes, Scotland and Wales get devolution from Westminster but not the
more populous regions of England.

And not any local parts of England either.

We need a strucured tiered system of local regional and national
government. Not more centralisation. Councils that have power to make
decisions, not simply act as rubber stamps for central government, or
worse, European government, legislation.

On 18/03/2010 16:45, J G Miller wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:10:02 +0000, George Weston wrote:

but they all have one thing in common, which is that they all cover
*all* council services in their areas.

Except where there are parish or town councils.

Parish and town councils (community councils in Wales) don't actually
provide many - if any - services at all, apart from the larger ones, who
might own some parks or recreation grounds, etc.
They act more in an advisory role, providing the county council with
local input to planning applications, etc. and may also give out small
grants to local organisations, like village halls.


This makes life a bit simpler for the residents of these areas,
who don't have to try and remember "who deals with what" when it comes
to roads, refuse collection, highways, council tax, schools, etc...

So who deals with the local ambulance service, or the local fire and
emergency service, or the local police service, all of which used to
be under county council control.

County councils have reps on the various local health boards, police
authorities and so on but the emergency services have been independent
organisations for as far back as I can remember - which being an old
fart, is a long time!


It's a good job that public opinion put Prescott in his place on that
one!

Yes, Scotland and Wales get devolution from Westminster but not the
more populous regions of England.

One way might be to make the UK into a Federal country, like the US or
Germany, divided into four States, with each state having equal
law-making and local taxation powers, with the UK government being
solely concerned with higher matters of state, for instance defence,
foreign policy, etc.?

George

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 George Weston wrote:

The Royal County of Berkshire exists but in name as a geographical
entity. The unitary authorities within Berkshire are Reading BC,
Bracknell Forest BC, Slough BC, Wokingham DC, West Berks Council and the
Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

Thanks for that - a prime example of what a mess results from splitting
up an historic shire county into small pieces!
I can understand cities within the area of shire counties doing their
own thing but Berkshire doesn't have any!
(In any case, as far as I'm concerned, Slough is still in
Buckinghamshire - and I'm sure that the majority of Berkshire residents
would have similar feelings!)

Many years ago Reading was a County Borough. Then in the 1970's
reorganisation it lost that status, but now it appears to have regained
what it lost - or has it? It is canvassing for city status but it's
doubtful if it will get it.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On 18/03/2010 19:23, David Rance wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 George Weston wrote:

The Royal County of Berkshire exists but in name as a geographical
entity. The unitary authorities within Berkshire are Reading BC,
Bracknell Forest BC, Slough BC, Wokingham DC, West Berks Council and the
Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead.

Thanks for that - a prime example of what a mess results from
splitting up an historic shire county into small pieces!
I can understand cities within the area of shire counties doing their
own thing but Berkshire doesn't have any!
(In any case, as far as I'm concerned, Slough is still in
Buckinghamshire - and I'm sure that the majority of Berkshire
residents would have similar feelings!)

Many years ago Reading was a County Borough. Then in the 1970's
reorganisation it lost that status, but now it appears to have regained
what it lost - or has it? It is canvassing for city status but it's
doubtful if it will get it.

I doubt it too, now that we all know where Ricky Gervais hails from... ;-)

George