HDCP "Legacy" Issues

I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my (VERY
old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to occasionally
record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one case we are
recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In" input to a VHS
recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box output to AV input to
another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we get
the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not readable)
error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this program cannot
be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input (or something like
that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI specification
even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized with unintended
consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that there is nothing that
can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it for
later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded 6551 error
message. Is this predictable?

Thanks.

dave

On Jan 10, 3:12*pm, "Dave Lee" wrote:
I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my (VERY
old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to occasionally
record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one case we are
recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In" input to a VHS
recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box output to AV input to
another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we get
the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not readable)
error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this program cannot
be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input (or something like
that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI specification
even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized with unintended
consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that there is nothing that
can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it for
later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded 6551 error
message. Is this predictable?

Thanks.

dave

HDCP and VHS in the same sentence? Your VHS only records NTSC analog
video so you must be using a cable box ahead of the VHS machine. Since
the VHS doesn't 'know' about HDCP it must be the cable box failing.
'Numbers' is a CBS show and the digital QAM feeds of the OTA (Over The
Air) channels are rarely scrambled meaninig you can use a DVR or PC
based recorder. Lots here have been doing that for years - 5 in my
case. It is SO much better than a VHS machine on every conceivable
measure. If you intend to continue the VHS route you should get a
cable box that works correctly I.E complain to the cable folks.

G²

Dave Lee wrote:

I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my
(VERY old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to
occasionally record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one
case we are recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In"
input to a VHS recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box
output to AV input to another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we
get the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not
readable) error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this
program cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input
(or something like that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized
with unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that
there is nothing that can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it
for later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded
6551 error message. Is this predictable?

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a digital only
phenomena, and should not affect VHS VCRs. Methinks you must have a
faulty cable box upstream from the VCR. IIRC, TWC still has local
affiliates as analog channels on most of their cable systems. Use a
1-2 splitter, and go directly into your VCR. You won't get any HDCP
errors this way.

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
Dave Lee wrote:

I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my (VERY
old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to occasionally
record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one case we are
recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In" input to a VHS
recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box output to AV input to
another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we get
the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not readable)
error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this program
cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input (or
something like that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized with
unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that there
is nothing that can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it for
later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded 6551
error message. Is this predictable?

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a digital only
phenomena, and should not affect VHS VCRs. Methinks you must have a
faulty cable box upstream from the VCR. IIRC, TWC still has local
affiliates as analog channels on most of their cable systems. Use a
1-2 splitter, and go directly into your VCR. You won't get any HDCP
errors this way.

Thanks for the comments. THe 'NUMBERS" event that I referenced was off a
set-top box (Time Warner cable box). However another show (it was a USA
network show - can't recall the name) was recorded directly from the Cable
coax to the 'Cable In' on a late 1990's vintage VHS recorder (and played
there - no cable box).

And it has happened that way more than once.

dave

"G-squared" wrote in message
...
On Jan 10, 3:12 pm, "Dave Lee" wrote:
I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my (VERY
old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to occasionally
record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one case we are
recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In" input to a VHS
recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box output to AV input to
another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we get
the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not readable)
error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this program
cannot
be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input (or something
like
that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification
even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized with unintended
consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that there is nothing
that
can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it for
later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded 6551
error
message. Is this predictable?

Thanks.

dave

HDCP and VHS in the same sentence? Your VHS only records NTSC analog
video so you must be using a cable box ahead of the VHS machine. Since
the VHS doesn't 'know' about HDCP it must be the cable box failing.
'Numbers' is a CBS show and the digital QAM feeds of the OTA (Over The
Air) channels are rarely scrambled meaninig you can use a DVR or PC
based recorder. Lots here have been doing that for years - 5 in my
case. It is SO much better than a VHS machine on every conceivable
measure. If you intend to continue the VHS route you should get a
cable box that works correctly I.E complain to the cable folks.

G²

Thanks for the comments - unfortunately I am out of range of any OTA
signals.

The 'NUMBERS" event that I referenced was off a set-top box (Time Warner
cable box). However another show (it was a USA network show - can't recall
the name) was recorded directly from the Cable coax to the 'Cable In' on a
late 1990's vintage VHS recorder (and played there - no cable box).

And it has happened that way more than once.

dave

Dave Lee wrote:
I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my
(VERY old) VHS recorder(s).

Your VHS does not HAVE HDCP, right?

We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to
occasionally record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one
case we are recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In"
input to a VHS recorder.

So you are recording Analog, right?

In the other case it is an AV set-top box
output to AV input to another (old) VHS box.

By "set-top box" (STB) do y ou mean an STB provided by your cable company?


I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we
get the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not
readable) error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this
program cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input
(or something like that).

Well, that is not coming from a direct cable connection, unless there is
something else in the circuit upstream from your place.

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed.

Of course that is so.

So I assume that we are being victimized
with unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that
there is nothing that can be done about this.

No, I'm afraid not (oops, Now I"M paranoid too!-).

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it
for later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded
6551 error message. Is this predictable?

Dave Lee wrote:

I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my
(VERY old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to
occasionally record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In
one case we are recording directly off Time Warner cable to the
"Cable In" input to a VHS recorder. In the other case it is an AV
set-top box output to AV input to another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we
get the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not
readable) error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that
this program cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another
input (or something like that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized
with unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume
that there is nothing that can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it
for later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded
6551 error message. Is this predictable?

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a digital only
phenomena, and should not affect VHS VCRs. Methinks you must have a
faulty cable box upstream from the VCR. IIRC, TWC still has local
affiliates as analog channels on most of their cable systems. Use a
1-2 splitter, and go directly into your VCR. You won't get any HDCP
errors this way.

Thanks for the comments. THe 'NUMBERS" event that I referenced was off a
set-top box (Time Warner cable box). However another show (it was a USA
network show - can't recall the name) was recorded directly from the
Cable coax to the 'Cable In' on a late 1990's vintage VHS recorder (and
played there - no cable box).

And it has happened that way more than once.

Are you saying that you got HDCP error messages with the cable directly
plugged into a VHS VCR? Don't know how. Was this a stand alone VCR, or
a combination DVD recorder/VCR? Your stand alone VCR shouldn't be even
be able to generate a HDCP error on-screen graphic. Please double check
this with your incoming cable - 1 to 2 splitter - VCR.

"RickMerrill" wrote in message
...
Dave Lee wrote:
I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my
(VERY old) VHS recorder(s).

Your VHS does not HAVE HDCP, right?

We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to
occasionally record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one
case we are recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In"
input to a VHS recorder.

So you are recording Analog, right?


YES


In the other case it is an AV set-top box
output to AV input to another (old) VHS box.

By "set-top box" (STB) do y ou mean an STB provided by your cable company?

YES




I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we
get the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not
readable) error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this
program cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input
(or something like that).

Well, that is not coming from a direct cable connection, unless there is
something else in the circuit upstream from your place.

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed.

Of course that is so.

So I assume that we are being victimized
with unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that
there is nothing that can be done about this.

No, I'm afraid not (oops, Now I"M paranoid too!-).

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it
for later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded
6551 error message. Is this predictable?

It has happened once when recording "NUMBERS", twice when recording "White
Collar", and maybe twice on a couple of other random shows that I don't
recall.

In ALL of the cases (except for the single/recent NUMBERS case) there was no
SetTopBox in the record or play path.

dave

"UCLAN" wrote in message
...
Dave Lee wrote:

I am assuming that I am having unintended HDCP issues when using my
(VERY old) VHS recorder(s). We use our VHS (2 of them actually) to
occasionally record shows (not HD, obviously) for viewing later. In one
case we are recording directly off Time Warner cable to the "Cable In"
input to a VHS recorder. In the other case it is an AV set-top box
output to AV input to another (old) VHS box.

I would guess that 10% of the time when we try to record something we
get the audio and the video is just a screen with the (mostly not
readable) error message number 65511 HDCP DLG and text saying that this
program cannot be viewed through a DVI input, please use another input
(or something like that).

Of course the boxes that we are using were built before a DVI
specification even existed. So I assume that we are being victimized
with unintended consequences of HDCP protection and I also assume that
there is nothing that can be done about this.

But is there any way to know in advance which shows will present this
problem? My wife enjoys the show "NUMBERS" and we regularly record it
for later viewing. Last Friday's show suddenly presented the dreaded
6551 error message. Is this predictable?

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a digital only
phenomena, and should not affect VHS VCRs. Methinks you must have a
faulty cable box upstream from the VCR. IIRC, TWC still has local
affiliates as analog channels on most of their cable systems. Use a
1-2 splitter, and go directly into your VCR. You won't get any HDCP
errors this way.

Thanks for the comments. THe 'NUMBERS" event that I referenced was off a
set-top box (Time Warner cable box). However another show (it was a USA
network show - can't recall the name) was recorded directly from the
Cable coax to the 'Cable In' on a late 1990's vintage VHS recorder (and
played there - no cable box).

And it has happened that way more than once.

Are you saying that you got HDCP error messages with the cable directly
plugged into a VHS VCR? Don't know how. Was this a stand alone VCR, or
a combination DVD recorder/VCR? Your stand alone VCR shouldn't be even
be able to generate a HDCP error on-screen graphic. Please double check
this with your incoming cable - 1 to 2 splitter - VCR.

Yes - I ABSOLUTELY got this with a direct cable-coax to VHS recorder setup
(TimeWarner Settop box run off a splitter parallel to the VHS device). And
this happened more than once.

I've given up on "how" (Time Warner claims that "they" are doing it - 'they'
as in signal source). I am more concerned with how to figure out when it
will happen.

dave

ps. In case it matters (can't imagine how) this is a combination TV set/VHS
recorder (late 1990's vintage hardware).

UCLAN wrote:

Thanks for the comments. THe 'NUMBERS" event that I referenced was off
a set-top box (Time Warner cable box). However another show (it was a
USA network show - can't recall the name) was recorded directly from
the Cable coax to the 'Cable In' on a late 1990's vintage VHS recorder
(and played there - no cable box).

And it has happened that way more than once.

Are you saying that you got HDCP error messages with the cable directly
plugged into a VHS VCR? Don't know how. Was this a stand alone VCR, or
a combination DVD recorder/VCR? Your stand alone VCR shouldn't be even
be able to generate a HDCP error on-screen graphic. Please double check
this with your incoming cable - 1 to 2 splitter - VCR.

And, I might add, you might want to give us the make/model number of the
offending VCR.