Blank TV screens as cable firm ditches analogue

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:08:25 +0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

However, you said earlier that you are a digital customer of VM, so how
would you know what other services they carry unless you are breaking
the contract you have with them?

There are digital customers who were set up with the ability to view
the analogue bypass channels. Quite legitimately, no contract breaking
of any kind.

--

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:38:46 +0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

But, unless you've got me completely confused, we were talking about
customers with, or migrated to the digital service.

AFIAK no DTV STBs have any form of analogue by-pass.

Well that is your mistake. Even in situations where the STBs don't
have the analogue bypass built in themselves, particularly insistent
customers who wanted an analogue bypass had one set up by the
installation engineers.

(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

You say "Admittedly I believe ..." so you have based all your posts and
arguments in this thread on guesswork and supposition, which you have
presented as hard fact and wasted an awful lot of other peoples' time,
whether just ploughing through your demented ramblings or attempting to
address them.

What on earth is your problem, young man? I use phrases like "I think"
and "I believe" to indicate that while I know something about the
subject, I am not arrogant enough to treat anything I say as if it
should be carved onto stone tablets and treated as the final word on
the subject.

I am always willing to be corrected by those who know better. Sadly,
you fail this test.

Welcome to my killfile!

(I won't bother with New Year's greetings - I wouldn't include the word
'happy' if I did!)

Wow, you really are crazy. Ho hum. I'm fairly sure that the world will
keep on turning irrespective of your somewhat inexpert opinions. Just
because you've screwed a couple of F connectors on a bit of Coax in
the past doesn't make you an authority, you know.

--

In message , Zero Tolerance
writes


Well that is your mistake. Even in situations where the STBs don't
have the analogue bypass built in themselves, particularly insistent
customers who wanted an analogue bypass had one set up by the
installation engineers.

(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

Which UK digital set-top boxes have a 'CATV' and a 'UHF' input?
--
Ian

On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:56:45 +0100, J G Miller wrote:
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:29:59 +0000, Duncan Corps wrote:
It's demonstrably possible to transmit a 16:9 (letterboxed or
anamorphic) picture over an analogue system. Some PAL VHS videos did
this.

Indeed that has been the case with PAL Plus but as far as I am aware
only Channel4 bothered to do this, but ceased doing it (maybe when DVB-t
transmissions started).

So that does not alter the fact that current analog transmissions in the
UKofGB&NI only offer a 4:3/14:9 picture, and thus digital cable viewers
would be deprived of a 16:9 wide picture if the cable company used the
analog broadcast as source material.

While all this is true, there's a subtle difference between what's
possible and what actually happens.

So, strictly speaking, it's not entirely true to say "cable viewers will
not get a widescreen picture but only the 4:3/14:9 picture transmitted on
analog [sic]." or "digital cable viewers would be deprived of a 16:9 wide
picture if the cable company used the analog [sic] broadcast as source
material.".

They could get a widescreen picture over analogue if someone transmitted
one, and there's nothing to stop them doing so. This is another example
of people artificially imposing limitations onto the technologies they're
using for reasons best known only to themselves.

In message , Paul
Martin writes
In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Zero Tolerance
writes

(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

Which UK digital set-top boxes have a 'CATV' and a 'UHF' input?

The Pace models made for NTL/CWC. They modulate their output onto UHF
as well as providing a SCART output.

Well, I confess that I didn't have that much to do with either NTL's or
TW's digital STBs. There was one network where the analogue boxes were
fitted with an add-on filtered bypass unit which accepted a UHF feed
from an aerial, but I didn't know that any of the digital STBs had an
additional UHF input and/or a modulated output.

While I agree that these would be 'nice to have' facilities, experience
showed that the bypass facilities provided for the analogue boxes tended
to be 'network specific'. One manufacturer ended up by making available
the proverbial '57 varieties' of add-on bypass units. [OK, maybe I
exaggerate a little.]
--
Ian

Paul Martin wrote:
In article ,
Terry Casey wrote:
Paul Martin wrote:
However VM have taken the trouble to provide analogue versions of six
now-only-digital channels on their cable system. I fully expected them
to disappear when the off-air analogue signals went off.

However, you said earlier that you are a digital customer of VM, so how
would you know what other services they carry unless you are breaking
the contract you have with them?

There's that VHF FM outlet on the wallplate. I have only a
hyperband-capable DVD recorder and standard UHF-only TV and VCR. VM
(Bolton head end) provides unscrambled analogue signals in the range
E22 to E30.

What part of the contract am I breaking? Are you accusing me in a
roundabout way of having an unauthorised cable box?


It was always my understanding that it was a condition of supply that
the subscriber was not allowed to connect equipment directly to any part
of the VM network, other than via a VM STB or Modem. It was certainly
spelt out very clearly in T&C of my first cable employer (ELT, later
encom, Bell Cablemedia, Cable & Wireless Communications and then NTL.)

The one exception to this is the FM feed which, on the outlet boxes I've
had dealings with, have BII band-pass filters fitted on the FM outlet.
Any other form of connection could result in signal from the
subscriber's equipment/installation being injected back into the network.

Remember that, for interactive and internet services, the subscriber
feed effectively has a direct connection back to the headend equipment
between 5MHz and 65MHz, so there is a very good reason!

Terry

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Zero Tolerance
writes


Well that is your mistake. Even in situations where the STBs don't
have the analogue bypass built in themselves, particularly insistent
customers who wanted an analogue bypass had one set up by the
installation engineers.

(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

Which UK digital set-top boxes have a 'CATV' and a 'UHF' input?

None that I know of but some cablecos did provide UHF/CATV combiners
with suitable filtering for analogue set tops so that the subscriber's
aerial could be combined with the STB output.

There were about 3 different versions, I think, to cater for different
transmitter groups and STB output channels.

No doubt some of these are still around but the post doesn't read as
that is the case.

As I said in another post, Zero Tolerance appears to make up a new
scenario with every new post as 'evidence' to support his latest claim.

Terry

Paul Martin wrote:
In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Zero Tolerance
writes
(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

Which UK digital set-top boxes have a 'CATV' and a 'UHF' input?

The Pace models made for NTL/CWC. They modulate their output onto UHF
as well as providing a SCART output.


Ah yes! You are quite right! I've just taken a look at one!

Terry

Terry Casey wrote:
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Zero Tolerance
writes


Well that is your mistake. Even in situations where the STBs don't
have the analogue bypass built in themselves, particularly insistent
customers who wanted an analogue bypass had one set up by the
installation engineers.

(Example: Incoming cable feed to splitter, splitter output 1 to CATV
input of set top box, spiltter output 2 to UHF input to set top box.
Result: Analogue bypass.)

Which UK digital set-top boxes have a 'CATV' and a 'UHF' input?

None that I know of but some cablecos did provide UHF/CATV combiners
with suitable filtering for analogue set tops so that the subscriber's
aerial could be combined with the STB output.

There were about 3 different versions, I think, to cater for different
transmitter groups and STB output channels.

No doubt some of these are still around but the post doesn't read as
that is the case.

As I said in another post, Zero Tolerance appears to make up a new
scenario with every new post as 'evidence' to support his latest claim.


However, as Paul Martin has reminded me, there was such a DTV STB so,
perhaps, in this instance he is right!

Terry

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:41:21 +0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

It was always my understanding that it was a condition of supply that
the subscriber was not allowed to connect equipment directly to any part
of the VM network, other than via a VM STB or Modem. It was certainly
spelt out very clearly in T&C of my first cable employer (ELT, later
encom, Bell Cablemedia, Cable & Wireless Communications and then NTL.)

Sadly "your understanding" is not correct, as a quick read of Virgin
Media's terms and conditions indicate:

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html...ble/terms.html

Virgin Media's terms and conditions, in any case, only apply to
customers who enter into a contract with them - so, again, any such
non-existent "musn't connect anything to our network" prohibition
could not be enforced against people who were not VM customers but who
have live cable outlets poking through their walls. Perhaps as part of
a MATV system.
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