You will need new equipment for HD TV, what you got is no good.

"comp.john" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-05, Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Nobody has claimed that a HD ready TV with built in freeview tuner will
receive HD Freeview transmissions.

Do you not think it is reasonable to expect a HD-compatible TV that
comes with its own tuner, that its tuner will be HD-compatible?

--
comp.john



given that hd resolution tvs have been on sale for years, and the standard
for our hd terrestrial broadcasts are not years old, how exactly would that
work?



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....
http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com
you fight better when you have a bear!

Andy Burns wrote:
On 07/12/09 13:22, comp.john wrote:

My ire is not directed at you. It's directed at this descriptive
chicanery that seems to have been allowed to develop by the industry.

I agree it would be better if it was made clear by all adverts and sales
"assistants", rather than tucked away in the small print, or left for
the consumer to discover by themselves.

Most of the sales assistants don't have a clue either.

On 2009-12-07, The dog from that film you saw
wrote:

given that hd resolution tvs have been on sale for years, and the standard
for our hd terrestrial broadcasts are not years old, how exactly would that
work?

The standard was agreed in August 2008. My telly was bought last month.
It adheres to the standard - it was manufactured this year. It is still
being manufactured.

The terrestrial freeview people have decided to use a different standard now
for HD, that's what sucks. I wish the terrestrial broadcasters would adhere
to the standard they agreed upon. What are they going to change it
to next year? Standards have to be agreed upon well in advance, and then
adhered to. That's the only way how manufacturers can cope.
--
comp.john

"comp.john" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-07, The dog from that film you saw
wrote:

given that hd resolution tvs have been on sale for years, and the
standard
for our hd terrestrial broadcasts are not years old, how exactly would
that
work?

The standard was agreed in August 2008. My telly was bought last month.
It adheres to the standard - it was manufactured this year. It is still
being manufactured.

The terrestrial freeview people have decided to use a different standard
now
for HD, that's what sucks. I wish the terrestrial broadcasters would
adhere
to the standard they agreed upon. What are they going to change it
to next year? Standards have to be agreed upon well in advance, and then
adhered to. That's the only way how manufacturers can cope.




given that the satellite HD broadcasts are likely to look better than the
freeview HD ones, why do you want to watch them anyway?



--
Gareth.

that fly...... is your magic wand....
http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com
you fight better when you have a bear!

In article , Andy Burns
wrote:
I can only think of one device I've ever purchased which really was
"future proof" - a US Robotics v.everything modem, due to the DSP based
design, software upgrades not only fixed bugs but took its speed from
9k6 or 14k4 at time of purchase to 56k by end of life, a similarly
designed item would be considered overkill and pared to the bone nowadays.

I've still got mine. You could buy a whole computer now for what I
originally paid for it, but it still works, and is in circuit (though
normally switched off) as emergency internet access in case ADSL fails.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

On 2009-12-07, The dog from that film you saw
wrote:

given that the satellite HD broadcasts are likely to look better than the
freeview HD ones, why do you want to watch them anyway?

Yes, I agree on this point. The only reason I'm using a tv aerial is
because it's there and a satellite dish isn't (yet!)
--
comp.john

lid wrote:

I think that's just a *little* to hard.
'Buyer beware' of course, but what reason would a non-technical person
have to even suspect that a brand-new, current-production TV might be
obsolescent, and that therefore he should do such research?

There are/will be many cases such as this, and I would love to see a
Trading Standards officer somewhere take a retailer to court for not
correctly advising a customer.

It's _lot_ too hard. To expcet the average joe in the street to
understand 16QAM, or MPEG4, or whatever else is in DVB-T2, is way over
the top. I'd expect "HD Ready" to mean "Ready for HD". And here we are
3 months after he bought the B***y thing, HD broadcasts start and IT
ISN'T READY.

I'm used to that kind of c**p in the world of computers. I'm used to
the way my PC goes obsolete every couple of years. I'm used to the the
way the new word processor writes files that my old ones can't handle.

I do NOT expect to find it in the consumer world.

My view, having come here just to learn about it, is that you must buy
separates. The bits are more likely to survive than the whole. But all
those cables ain't pretty.

Andy

Graham Murray wrote (apparently) in uk.tech.digital-tv on Sun 06 Dec
2009 17:33:28:

Andy Burns writes:

It's touching, the amount of faith that companies place in
advertising, many's the time I've seen a new product on the shelves
and tried it, then noticed the advert campaign start a few weeks
later.

Or the other way round, you see the advert and decide to try the new
product but cannot see it in any shops. By the time you do see it in
shops, the impulse to try it has passed.

Or the adverts that used to say what region the products were going to
be available in. I seem to think Nescafe used to do targetted
marketing for Tyne Tees, Yorkshire or Granada. You'd see the advert
here anyway and think, "If they're not selling it here yet, I'll not
be buying it if they decide to".

I would be fairly confident that this is not what the advertisers
intended.

Same for the special Saturday or Sunday papers with various
supplements or CDs or DVDs.
--
MrGuest
Always, seemingly, on the road to nowhere

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:38:34 +0000 (UTC), "comp.john"
wrote:

On 2009-12-07, Andy Burns wrote:
On 07/12/09 10:03, comp.john wrote:

Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/yf8t5lj

Are you telling me that its freeviewHD is now obsolete? Does this also
apply to freesat?

Yep, it'll still receive DVB-T, DVB-S and DVB-S2 (seems only the Nordic
models receive DVB-C) but not DVB-T2, so by itself it will only receive
HD from satellite not the aerial.

OK that's it - sod freeview. Forgive my french but this is ****ed up
beyond beleif. This is going to annoy loads of people. I look to
replacing the telly after 7 or so years, lots of people think this way.
I get the most current product possible and it's obsolete the moment I
get it.

Is there any danger of the same thing happening to freesat?

I agree with you, except for the 7 years. My previous TV lasted me
about 20 years. My current TV is /only/ 6 years old. I only want to
replace things when they break and I hate it when things are
deliberately obsoleted to force you to buy something new.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

comp.john wrote:
On 2009-12-07, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:17:54 +0000 (UTC), "comp.john"
wrote:

On 2009-12-05, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Nobody has claimed that a HD ready TV with built in freeview tuner will
receive HD Freeview transmissions.
Do you not think it is reasonable to expect a HD-compatible TV that
comes with its own tuner, that its tuner will be HD-compatible?
No, not necessarily. A TV is not solely for viewing material from
broadcast sources via its builtin tuner(s). It is for viewing material
from other sources that may be HD.


I've got to disagree with you there. The tuner is a built-in device.
Other stuff that I may or may not attach to it is immaterial. I would
expect a built-in device to conform to the spec of other stuff that is
also built-in.

What you're talking about is a display. A television implies a tuner. A
tuner in a tv implies their capabilities are dovetailed. I would not
expect a black & white tuner in a colour television. I would not expect
a max-rated 720 tuner and circuitry in a 1080p device. I do expect a
hd-ready television receiver to have a hd-ready dvb tuner and a hd-ready
display. But... this is a moot point.

The problem is that the broadcasters(?) have redefined what hd-ready dvb means,
before it's .. uh, ready. It ain't the tellys fault. I made sure I
looked at the spec sheet, in the small print. It is compliant with all
dvb standards as of August 2008. Can't see what else I could have done.

I think you and the OP are right to be angry. You are but a few rare
non-technical people to now realise what has been going on.

It is fair to say that 'HD ready' has been around for a much longer time
and to us technical people it means you could never receive an HD
broadcast directly. Most TVs where equipment with only MPEG2 SDTV
decoders and it was always understood that HD would need a higher power
decompressor processor connect by HDMI or similar, and now MPEG4 is the
system of choice for HD.

However HD was not available during this time during which a growing
misunderstand has been festering in the public consciousness, that their
HD Ready TV would receive HD TV when it came. Ask you self why would
they not think that.

This has been furthermore compounded by the change to DVB-T2, as
Freeview SD/ Freesat HD TV would have been capable, in theory, of
receiving Freeview HD aswell.

The very fact that up until very recently and probably still now, that
analogue only TV's were for sale, possible emblazened with the words
'digital processing' or something, is purely and simply misleading.
Personally I think that those people should get refunds under the sale
of goods act ('not fit for purpose' section) when their TVs stop working
within 6 years, but likely courts will say they were told, just like
consumers are told their extra insurance cover 'does not cover misuse,
neglect or abuse' in a 5 page contract with 5 point size text. People
have other things going on in their lives, they cannot all be broadcast
experts, nor legal experts, nor spend hours reading contracts for every
little thing they buy. They want a TV,, most buy the cheapest they can
find and have no technical knowledge of modulation, decoders, scalers,
decompressors etc.

The world is broken, everything is marketed and all marketing is lies.
'buy this product, you will get more sex from babes like this...just
look at this one using the product, she wants you if you buy it'. Or
maybe that's just MY inner voice :-)


--
Tony