You will need new equipment for HD TV, what you got is no good.

On 07/12/09 13:22, comp.john wrote:

My ire is not directed at you. It's directed at this descriptive
chicanery that seems to have been allowed to develop by the industry.

I agree it would be better if it was made clear by all adverts and sales
"assistants", rather than tucked away in the small print, or left for
the consumer to discover by themselves.

On 07/12/09 13:27, comp.john wrote:

That's the reason I made sure to get one updateable via software. I hope
the changes aren't so severe that they require a hardware update as
well.

I'm afraid that DVB-T2 is sufficiently different from DVB-T that no
software fix will be forthcoming, software updates will fix bugs if
you're lucky.

I can only think of one device I've ever purchased which really was
"future proof" - a US Robotics v.everything modem, due to the DSP based
design, software upgrades not only fixed bugs but took its speed from
9k6 or 14k4 at time of purchase to 56k by end of life, a similarly
designed item would be considered overkill and pared to the bone nowadays.

Sod it, i'll get a freesat dish and have HD right now.

You might as well go that route, you've already paid for the tuner.

In article ,
comp.john wrote:
On 2009-12-07, Adrian wrote:
comp.john wrote:
On 2009-12-05, Dr Zoidberg wrote:
Nobody has claimed that a HD ready TV with built in freeview tuner
will receive HD Freeview transmissions.

Do you not think it is reasonable to expect a HD-compatible TV that
comes with its own tuner, that its tuner will be HD-compatible?



It would be reasonable to check before you buy. No Freeview HD
televisions are available to buy yet.


That is a strange arguement. How can you check for what has not been
manufactured yet? All these full hd-ready tellys, and now they're not.
yeah, they're hd-ready with their own freeview tuner. Which isn't
hd-ready.

but they are HD ready in terms of watching Blu-Ray DVDs.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On 2009-12-07, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:17:54 +0000 (UTC), "comp.john"
wrote:

On 2009-12-05, Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Nobody has claimed that a HD ready TV with built in freeview tuner will
receive HD Freeview transmissions.

Do you not think it is reasonable to expect a HD-compatible TV that
comes with its own tuner, that its tuner will be HD-compatible?

No, not necessarily. A TV is not solely for viewing material from
broadcast sources via its builtin tuner(s). It is for viewing material
from other sources that may be HD.


I've got to disagree with you there. The tuner is a built-in device.
Other stuff that I may or may not attach to it is immaterial. I would
expect a built-in device to conform to the spec of other stuff that is
also built-in.

What you're talking about is a display. A television implies a tuner. A
tuner in a tv implies their capabilities are dovetailed. I would not
expect a black & white tuner in a colour television. I would not expect
a max-rated 720 tuner and circuitry in a 1080p device. I do expect a
hd-ready television receiver to have a hd-ready dvb tuner and a hd-ready
display. But... this is a moot point.

The problem is that the broadcasters(?) have redefined what hd-ready dvb means,
before it's .. uh, ready. It ain't the tellys fault. I made sure I
looked at the spec sheet, in the small print. It is compliant with all
dvb standards as of August 2008. Can't see what else I could have done.
--
comp.john

On 07/12/09 14:30, comp.john wrote:

I looked at the spec sheet, in the small print. It is compliant with all
dvb standards as of August 2008.

It was, but it's not fair to expect it to be compliant with new
standards released in September 2009

Can't see what else I could have done.

Notice that DVB-T2 had been in the pipeline for over 2 years, or failing
that, guess that *something* would be?

"charles" wrote in message
...

That is a strange arguement. How can you check for what has not been
manufactured yet? All these full hd-ready tellys, and now they're not.
yeah, they're hd-ready with their own freeview tuner. Which isn't
hd-ready.

but they are HD ready in terms of watching Blu-Ray DVDs.


But they are sold as television sets and the consumer would rightly think it
was to that function the HD attribute referred.


Roger R

charles writes:

That is a strange arguement. How can you check for what has not been
manufactured yet? All these full hd-ready tellys, and now they're not.
yeah, they're hd-ready with their own freeview tuner. Which isn't
hd-ready.

but they are HD ready in terms of watching Blu-Ray DVDs.

But that is as a monitor, not as a TV. Think back to the mid 1960s just
before BBC launched in colour, if a TV had a colour tube and accepted a
colour signal via a composite or RGB feed but only had a black&white
VHF+UHF tuner, would you have considered the description "Colour TV
Ready" to be acceptable? Or for a tuner-amp to have been described as
'stereo ready' if it did not have an FM stereo decoder but did have
stereo input for a record deck? If neither of these would have been
acceptable, why is it acceptable for an 'HD ready TV' not to be able to
receive HD TV programmes?

The term 'XXX ready' where XXX is a service/facility that is not yet
available but will be launched in the near future indicates that the
equipment will be able to use/take advantage of the service/facility
when it is launched - without requiring additional 'add-ons'.

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
news
No, not necessarily. A TV is not solely for viewing material from
broadcast sources via its builtin tuner(s). It is for viewing material
from other sources that may be HD.


I beleive term 'television set' (TV) describes an assembly of parts capable
of receiving broadcast transmissions and turning them into a viewable
picture and sound. This can be and often is its sole purpose.

If the manufacturer or seller describes the assembly - 'the set' - as HD the
purchaser would rightly conclude that attribute referred to its principal
function. That the equipment can do something else HD as well is only an
incidental bonus.

Roger R

In article ,
Graham Murray wrote:
charles writes:

That is a strange arguement. How can you check for what has not been
manufactured yet? All these full hd-ready tellys, and now they're not.
yeah, they're hd-ready with their own freeview tuner. Which isn't
hd-ready.

but they are HD ready in terms of watching Blu-Ray DVDs.

But that is as a monitor, not as a TV. Think back to the mid 1960s just
before BBC launched in colour, if a TV had a colour tube and accepted a
colour signal via a composite or RGB feed but only had a black&white
VHF+UHF tuner, would you have considered the description "Colour TV
Ready" to be acceptable? Or for a tuner-amp to have been described as
'stereo ready' if it did not have an FM stereo decoder but did have
stereo input for a record deck?

These latter certainly existed.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"comp.john" wrote in message
...
Is there any danger of the same thing happening to freesat?


I think there is, but who knows?

The Freesat model is a child of the British TV licence system. I am not
sure this free to view model is a viable one for the future and if things
change and Freesat (inc HD) becomes encrypted then your Freesat TV will need
another box. However that will be a few years down the line.

If the changes that are taking place in European television are any guide
then I would not be too optimistic.

Other European national broadcasters have been pushed - by pressure from
'rights holders' - to the position of encrypting their broadcasts and
requiring viewers to buy a special receiver box for their 'package' or
bouquet - similar to the Sky package - except its free to nationals, they
provide national residents (addresss required) with a free viewing card.
This applies to both terrestrial and satellite broadcasts. I could well
imagine broadcasting in this country (UK) going the same way.

The transition is happening right now as each national broadcaster switches
over to digital - both terrestrial and satellite:

France - packaged into 'Fransat' and requires special decoder box.
http://www.fransat.fr/
belgium - ditto but needs Telesat box or
http://telesat.be/
Italy - requires Tivu box
http://www.tivu.tv/tivudtt/index.aspx

I am inclined to think this trend to encrypted national packages will become
the norm and will be adopted here also.


Roger R

Corrections to any errors or omissions welcomed.