Report: Looking Forward to Ultra-High Definition TV

While the market for High-Definition TV has hit the mainstream, the industry
has already started speculating about the commercialization of Ultra-High
Definition (UHD).

http://hdtv.biz-news.com/news/en_US/...-definition-tv

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Certified SPAM-free sig

UCLAN wrote:
While the market for High-Definition TV has hit the mainstream, the
industry has already started speculating about the commercialization of
Ultra-High Definition (UHD).

http://hdtv.biz-news.com/news/en_US/...-definition-tv



Is that what they use for the megatron displays at stadiums and in times
square NY?

It would be great for remote classrooms too!

Quoting from the story at the basenote link:

"The In-Stat report says the rising popularity of high
resolution digital cinema will expose consumers
to high resolution content."

This is incorrect, and is the fatal flaw in the wishful thinking.

Most digital cinema today is "2k",
2048x1080,
which is only 5% more pixels than 1920x1080 HDTV.
In fact, for 1.85:1 compositions, they are identical, at
1998x1080.
DCI does offer a 5x higher bit rate.
Are the masses raving about that difference?

IMAX 35-70 film is effectively at least "8k". If there
were a significant market for this, IMAX wouldn't be
abandoning it for IMAX Digital, which is some kind of
dual-projector 2k.

Exhibitors have decided that 2k is "theatrical quality".
If you attend a Carmike these days, you are watching
what amounts to HDTV. This is not going to generate
demand for home 4k.

Sony would like exhibitors to think that 4k would be an
upgrade worth investing in. Is it happening?

If exhibitors are spending on any upgrades from 2k,
it's more likely to 3D, not 4k.

Home TV is going to 3D long before it goes to 4k or 8k.

And, drifting along, the 3D issue actually provides the
path to 4k and higher. Home 3D is likely to require
eyewear. If you can get people to don stuff at home to
watch TV, then why not make that gear stereo direct
retinal projection viewers (non-stereo VGA DRP gadgets
are just now coming to retail). Even a tiny apartment
could have a virtual 50-foot screen.

Beware the lawyers. Expect UHD DRM to be nasty.
Perhaps even 100% PPV.

--
Regards, Bob Niland
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

rjn wrote:
Quoting from the story at the basenote link:

"The In-Stat report says the rising popularity of high
resolution digital cinema will expose consumers
to high resolution content."

This is incorrect, and is the fatal flaw in the wishful thinking.

Most digital cinema today is "2k",
2048x1080,
which is only 5% more pixels than 1920x1080 HDTV.
In fact, for 1.85:1 compositions, they are identical, at
1998x1080.
DCI does offer a 5x higher bit rate.
Are the masses raving about that difference?

IMAX 35-70 film is effectively at least "8k". If there
were a significant market for this, IMAX wouldn't be
abandoning it for IMAX Digital, which is some kind of
dual-projector 2k.

Exhibitors have decided that 2k is "theatrical quality".
If you attend a Carmike these days, you are watching
what amounts to HDTV. This is not going to generate
demand for home 4k.

Sony would like exhibitors to think that 4k would be an
upgrade worth investing in. Is it happening?

If exhibitors are spending on any upgrades from 2k,
it's more likely to 3D, not 4k.

Home TV is going to 3D long before it goes to 4k or 8k.

Yes, but will the market support it!?

And, drifting along, the 3D issue actually provides the
path to 4k and higher. Home 3D is likely to require
eyewear.

No, there is an LCD technology that delivers different views
at slightly different angles! c.f.
http://www.physorg.com/news163845853.html

If you can get people to don stuff at home to
watch TV, then why not make that gear stereo direct
retinal projection viewers (non-stereo VGA DRP gadgets
are just now coming to retail). Even a tiny apartment
could have a virtual 50-foot screen.

That may well be the next "leap".

Beware the lawyers. Expect UHD DRM to be nasty.
Perhaps even 100% PPV.

Yes, there goes THAT technology!-)

RickMerrill wrote:

Home TV is going to 3D long before it goes to 4k or 8k.

Yes, but will the market support it!?

Indeed. Don't take my prediction of "3D before UHD" as
a prediction that home 3D will happen. It might not.
For example, if the exhibitors can derail the home standards
effort, they're likely beavering away at it, as they view 3D as
being their main market advantage over HDTV today.

And, drifting along, the 3D issue actually provides the
path to 4k and higher. Home 3D is likely to require
eyewear.

No, there is an LCD technology that delivers different views
at slightly different angles! c.f.http://www.physorg.com/news163845853.html

Even if that works, it may be too late/expensive/etc to
satisfy the current efforts to arrive at a home 3D standard.
Any such efforts are fraught with technical and market risk,
plus the normal vendor gaming. LCD glasses work with
today's 60P monitors, given a 3D signal & sync signal
(as long as "dim" works for you). Getting users buy all new
TVs just to get 3D is a hard sell.

And speaking of tech challenges ...
UHD: what connection supports 8k rates?

{HMD DRP} Even a tiny apartment
could have a virtual 50-foot screen.

That may well be the next "leap".

But has substantial challenges of its own. If it were
offered at today's HD res, your second headset would
immediately run up against fan-out limitations in HDMI DRM.

Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?

--
Regards, Bob Niland
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

rjn wrote:
RickMerrill wrote:

Home TV is going to 3D long before it goes to 4k or 8k.

Yes, but will the market support it!?

Indeed. Don't take my prediction of "3D before UHD" as
a prediction that home 3D will happen. It might not.
For example, if the exhibitors can derail the home standards
effort, they're likely beavering away at it, as they view 3D as
being their main market advantage over HDTV today.

And, drifting along, the 3D issue actually provides the
path to 4k and higher. Home 3D is likely to require
eyewear.
No, there is an LCD technology that delivers different views
at slightly different angles! c.f.http://www.physorg.com/news163845853.html

Even if that works, it may be too late/expensive/etc to
satisfy the current efforts to arrive at a home 3D standard.
Any such efforts are fraught with technical and market risk,
plus the normal vendor gaming. LCD glasses work with
today's 60P monitors, given a 3D signal & sync signal
(as long as "dim" works for you). Getting users buy all new
TVs just to get 3D is a hard sell.

And speaking of tech challenges ...
UHD: what connection supports 8k rates?

{HMD DRP} Even a tiny apartment
could have a virtual 50-foot screen.

That may well be the next "leap".

But has substantial challenges of its own. If it were
offered at today's HD res, your second headset would
immediately run up against fan-out limitations in HDMI DRM.

Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?

--
Regards, Bob Niland
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Those are excellent observations. Some sort of "compatible 3d" will be
needed to introduce new technology.

But in stores surely they are sending digital signals to all those tv - no?

I thought analog was to be off the cable/table by 2012. So if that
happens then the analog hole will die a natural death.

I used to be able to explain to the kids the difference between AM/FM
but with the digital transmissions the grandkids will be on their own!

RickMerrill wrote:

Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?

But in stores surely they are sending digital signals to all those tv - no?

I haven't made an exhaustive study of the matter, but
every time I've peeked, they are using YPrPb (analog
component).

The threat to that is ICT (Image Constraint Token), which
may start appearing in HDCP-infested content in 2012
(Mayans permitting, of course :-)

Of course, anyone who buys a TV based on what it looks
like in a retail display, while being fed a repeated, split,
analog signal, of who knows what source & res, is nuts.

On the other hand, the details you really need to know
are almost never provided at point of sale.

--
Regards, Bob Niland
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

On Nov 7, 6:55*pm, rjn wrote:
RickMerrill wrote:
Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?
But in stores surely they are sending digital signals to all those tv - no?

I haven't made an exhaustive study of the matter, but
every time I've peeked, they are using YPrPb (analog
component).

The threat to that is ICT (Image Constraint Token), which
may start appearing in HDCP-infested content in 2012
(Mayans permitting, of course :-)

Of course, anyone who buys a TV based on what it looks
like in a retail display, while being fed a repeated, split,
analog signal, of who knows what source & res, is nuts.

On the other hand, the details you really need to know
are almost never provided at point of sale.

--
Regards, Bob Niland * * * * * * * * * * * /rjn* * * * * email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Last week in Target all the TVs were running the same HD programming
and all of them were out of sync. I would expect analog component to
be time aligned as there is no needed processing. I.E. it appears the
TVs were getting digiral signals. But I could be wrong.

G²

On 11/8/09 3:47 PM, G-squared wrote:
On Nov 7, 6:55 pm, wrote:
wrote:
Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?
But in stores surely they are sending digital signals to all those tv - no?

I haven't made an exhaustive study of the matter, but
every time I've peeked, they are using YPrPb (analog
component).

The threat to that is ICT (Image Constraint Token), which
may start appearing in HDCP-infested content in 2012
(Mayans permitting, of course :-)

Of course, anyone who buys a TV based on what it looks
like in a retail display, while being fed a repeated, split,
analog signal, of who knows what source& res, is nuts.

On the other hand, the details you really need to know
are almost never provided at point of sale.

--
Regards, Bob Niland /rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Last week in Target all the TVs were running the same HD programming
and all of them were out of sync. I would expect analog component to
be time aligned as there is no needed processing. I.E. it appears the
TVs were getting digiral signals. But I could be wrong.

G²

Isn't HD programming delivered with digital signals?

On Nov 8, 4:04*pm, jAk wrote:
On 11/8/09 3:47 PM, G-squared wrote:





On Nov 7, 6:55 pm, *wrote:
*wrote:
Is it even known how stores will send the same signal
to dozens of demo TVs after the Hollywood Lawyers(TM)
get their pet pols to "close the analog hole"?
But in stores surely they are sending digital signals to all those tv - no?

I haven't made an exhaustive study of the matter, but
every time I've peeked, they are using YPrPb (analog
component).

The threat to that is ICT (Image Constraint Token), which
may start appearing in HDCP-infested content in 2012
(Mayans permitting, of course :-)

Of course, anyone who buys a TV based on what it looks
like in a retail display, while being fed a repeated, split,
analog signal, of who knows what source& *res, is nuts.

On the other hand, the details you really need to know
are almost never provided at point of sale.

--
Regards, Bob Niland * * * * * * * * * * * /rjn* * * * *email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.

Last week in Target all the TVs were running the same HD programming
and all of them were out of sync. I would expect analog component to
be time aligned as there is no needed processing. I.E. it appears the
TVs were getting digiral signals. But I could be wrong.

G²

Isn't HD programming delivered with digital signals?

Over the air, cable and satellite, yes. Distribution within a store
for display models, probably but not necessarily. It _could_ be analog
component but it seems more trouble to me.

G²