Strange channel lineup

My friend has a new LCD tv (Sony?)directly connected to his Comcast
cable. That is, there is no intermediate box between the tv and the coax
cable. Channel selection is done with the tv's remote.

Some of the strange things:

1. He can tune channels 2 and 2-1; both carry the same program.
2. He can tune channels 4, 4-1,4-2,4-3 and 4-4. Channels 4 and 4-1 are
the same program. Channels 4-2 through 4-4 each carry a different
program, the same ones you would see if connected to a rooftop antenna
here in the NYC area.
3. He can get most (maybe all)of channels between 106-1 and 106-11.

Questions:

1. How is getting these oddball mixes of analog channel
designations(like just plain 2)and digital channel designations (like 2-1)?

2. Why is he getting on channel 4 the same program as on channel 4-1,
instead of just snow? And why do channels 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 match what
comes over the air when the signal is coming from the cable company?

3. How can channel 106 have so many sub channels, especially if they are
packed into a 6 MHz bandwidth? As I recall, they all had full-motion
programming, not just simple static, low-resolution graphics.

Thanks for your insights.

Ray

On Oct 23, 10:00*pm, Ray K wrote:
My friend has a new LCD tv (Sony?)directly connected to his Comcast
cable. That is, there is no intermediate box between the tv and the coax
cable. Channel selection is done with the tv's remote.

Some of the strange things:

1. He can tune channels 2 and 2-1; both carry the same program.
2. He can tune channels 4, 4-1,4-2,4-3 and 4-4. Channels 4 and 4-1 are
the same program. Channels 4-2 through 4-4 each carry a different
program, the same ones you would see if connected to a rooftop antenna
here in the NYC area.
3. He can get most (maybe all)of channels between 106-1 and 106-11.

Questions:

1. How is getting these oddball mixes of analog channel
designations(like just plain 2)and digital channel designations (like 2-1)?

Ch2 is the regular analog feed, and 2.1 is the HD feed, also called
Clear QAM channels. You can get the major networks HD channels without
a cable box. Plus you get there subchannels like 4.2,4.4. It is the
same as if you had an OTA antenna.

2. Why is he getting on channel 4 the same program as on channel 4-1,
instead of just snow? And why do channels 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 match what
comes over the air when the signal is coming from the cable company?

It is the same channel assignment as OTA.

3. How can channel 106 have so many sub channels, especially if they are
packed into a 6 MHz bandwidth? As I recall, they all had full-motion
programming, not just simple static, low-resolution graphics.

Some cable companies pack a lot of their digital analog channels on a
few subs.

Thanks for your insights.

Ray

Ray K wrote:

My friend has a new LCD tv (Sony?)directly connected to his Comcast cable.
That is, there is no intermediate box between the tv and the coax cable.
Channel selection is done with the tv's remote.

Some of the strange things:

1. He can tune channels 2 and 2-1; both carry the same program. 2. He can
tune channels 4, 4-1,4-2,4-3 and 4-4. Channels 4 and 4-1 are the same
program. Channels 4-2 through 4-4 each carry a different program, the same
ones you would see if connected to a rooftop antenna here in the NYC area.
3. He can get most (maybe all)of channels between 106-1 and 106-11.

Questions:

1. How is getting these oddball mixes of analog channel designations(like
just plain 2)and digital channel designations (like 2-1)?

Easily. His TV's NTSC tuner is tuning the cable system's analog version
of WCBS on channel 2, while the TV's QAM tuner is picking up the cable
system's SD or HD digital version of WCBS-DT.

2. Why is he getting on channel 4 the same program as on channel 4-1,
instead of just snow? And why do channels 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 match what
comes over the air when the signal is coming from the cable company?

Channel 4 is Comcast's analog version of WNBC. 4.1 is the SD or HD QAM
digital version of the same channel. Comcast is merely passing along the
OTA contents of 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4.

3. How can channel 106 have so many sub channels, especially if they are
packed into a 6 MHz bandwidth? As I recall, they all had full-motion
programming, not just simple static, low-resolution graphics.

More than a dozen low resolution digital channels can be crammed into a
6MHz channel. Nothing unusual.

Ray K wrote:
My friend has a new LCD tv (Sony?)directly connected to his Comcast
cable. That is, there is no intermediate box between the tv and the coax
cable. Channel selection is done with the tv's remote.

Some of the strange things:

1. He can tune channels 2 and 2-1; both carry the same program.
2. He can tune channels 4, 4-1,4-2,4-3 and 4-4. Channels 4 and 4-1 are
the same program. Channels 4-2 through 4-4 each carry a different
program, the same ones you would see if connected to a rooftop antenna
here in the NYC area.
3. He can get most (maybe all)of channels between 106-1 and 106-11.

Questions:

1. How is getting these oddball mixes of analog channel
designations(like just plain 2)and digital channel designations (like 2-1)?

2. Why is he getting on channel 4 the same program as on channel 4-1,
instead of just snow? And why do channels 4-2, 4-3, and 4-4 match what
comes over the air when the signal is coming from the cable company?

3. How can channel 106 have so many sub channels, especially if they are
packed into a 6 MHz bandwidth? As I recall, they all had full-motion
programming, not just simple static, low-resolution graphics.

Thanks for your insights.

Ray

Thanks Mike and UCLAN for the explanations. I didn't know that cable
companies were still including the analog feeds.

Ray

Thanks Mike and UCLAN for the explanations. I didn't know that cable
companies were still including the analog feeds.

Ray

Ray K wrote:
Thanks Mike and UCLAN for the explanations. I didn't know that cable
companies were still including the analog feeds.

Ray

Actually, they aren't, since there are no more
analog feeds. They are sending the standard
definition digital feed to you in an analog
format, as well as the hd feed in digital.

Chip

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RickMerrill wrote:
The FCC requires them to provide the analog feeds.

No, the FCC no longer cares - it is the cable franchise contracts that
require it.

After 2012 the FCC will allow complete elimination of analog over cable.
In a number of states with a State-Cable-Franchise the cable companies
have given free cable boxes to people with analog sets and no other
cable box. (i.e. "limited basic" service customers get a free digital to
analog box)

Actually it's a bit more complicated than that.

Yes it is!

Certain channels -- those which have an over-the-air signal -- are
generally required by law to be carried by cable.

but only IF the originating station wants it (and they usually DO)
AND only IF the originating station supplies the signal in analog format.

You may be able to convince me otherwise but I'm pretty sure that:

1. It is an FCC requirement until 2012.
2. Must-carry is not dependent upon the station providing an analog signal to the cable system. It is dependent on the station providing a *signal*
of adequate strength but now that all full-power stations are digital only, it's only a digital signal that must be provided. The cable operator must
downconvert it to analog themselves.

Cable systems are required to downconvert these required signals to
analog format at no additional charge.

There appear to be exceptions: here in MA we used to get an analog
signal over cable from RIPBS, but RIPBS' analog transmitter blew out and
since they are now required to OTA digital, they just abandoned the
analog rather than spend the $. The result was that Comcast did not have
to carry it!

Depends on where in Massachusetts you are but it's very likely RIPBS was never a required signal -- that Comcast was carrying it voluntarily.

The station I work for has been dropped from a number of cable systems on the fringes of our coverage area. (much to the consternation of many
viewers) Those cable systems are outside our market area; they were never *required* to carry our signal. I've heard similar reports from other markets.

--

Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View, TN EM66

On Oct 24, 6:48*am, Ray K wrote:
Thanks Mike and UCLAN for the explanations. I didn't know that cable
companies were still including the analog feeds.

Ray

Cox cable in the LA area has 3 versions of the local channels on the
cable. Plain old analog, clear QAM std def digital and clear QAM HD
digital. I don't get why they need std def digital but it's there.

G²

G-squared wrote:

Thanks Mike and UCLAN for the explanations. I didn't know that cable
companies were still including the analog feeds.

Ray

Cox cable in the LA area has 3 versions of the local channels on the
cable. Plain old analog, clear QAM std def digital and clear QAM HD
digital. I don't get why they need std def digital but it's there.

Many of the STBs Cox (and others) use do *not* have analog tuners. So,
their cable has the analog version for those that connect the cable
directly into the TV; the digital SD version for the SD channel
assignments on their STBs; and HD versions for the HD segment of the
STBs. The digital SD version is usually not Clear QAM.

sorry-spammers wrote:
RickMerrill wrote:
The FCC requires them to provide the analog feeds.

No, the FCC no longer cares - it is the cable franchise contracts that
require it.

After 2012 the FCC will allow complete elimination of analog over
cable. In a number of states with a State-Cable-Franchise the cable
companies have given free cable boxes to people with analog sets and
no other cable box. (i.e. "limited basic" service customers get a free
digital to analog box)

Actually it's a bit more complicated than that.

Yes it is!

Certain channels -- those which have an over-the-air signal -- are
generally required by law to be carried by cable.

but only IF the originating station wants it (and they usually DO)
AND only IF the originating station supplies the signal in analog format.

You may be able to convince me otherwise but I'm pretty sure that:

1. It is an FCC requirement until 2012.

Having negotiated with the cable companies and toured the headend I
agree with everything you've said, with the rare caviat that the station
must agree to be carried by the cable - but this could vary by state.


2. Must-carry is not dependent upon the station providing an analog
signal to the cable system. It is dependent on the station providing a
*signal* of adequate strength but now that all full-power stations are
digital only, it's only a digital signal that must be provided. The
cable operator must downconvert it to analog themselves.

Cable systems are required to downconvert these required signals to
analog format at no additional charge.

There appear to be exceptions: here in MA we used to get an analog
signal over cable from RIPBS, but RIPBS' analog transmitter blew out
and since they are now required to OTA digital, they just abandoned
the analog rather than spend the $. The result was that Comcast did
not have to carry it!

Depends on where in Massachusetts you are but it's very likely RIPBS was
never a required signal -- that Comcast was carrying it voluntarily.

Yes: I was told that by both our Comcast govt rep and by a RIPBS rep.
But here's the good part: the RIPBS rep put me in touch with a Comcast
retention rep who gave me free STB because of the RIPBS change.


The station I work for has been dropped from a number of cable systems
on the fringes of our coverage area. (much to the consternation of many
viewers) Those cable systems are outside our market area; they were
never *required* to carry our signal. I've heard similar reports from
other markets.

I suggest that the "dropped" areas are only missing the analog signal!
You should check on that.